rec.autos.simulators

by **David Sikkin** » Tue, 05 Aug 1997 04:00:00

I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got
e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I
installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car
would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners.

I tried to remedy the problem by changing my skill level identical to Jeff
Gordon's and then downloading some pre-made car setups for specific tracks.
Not much luck. I have pushed a little more weight to the rear of the car
and have pushed the rear spoiler up to 70 degrees. This helped somewhat but
slowed the car down so much that it made it difficult to compete with the
AI cars in the 95 to 100 percent strength range and I still fish and sway
coming out of the corners... especially coming out of the tri-oval at Dega.
The only way to stop the swaying is to either tap the wall with the car or
slow down and brake, neither of which is a good way to win races.

Any suggestions???

-Dave

NOSPAM has been added to my email address to prevent
unwanted SPAMMAGE

by **Jim Sokolof** » Tue, 05 Aug 1997 04:00:00

> I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got
> e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I
> installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car
> would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners.

> I tried to remedy the problem by changing my skill level identical to Jeff
> Gordon's

The skill level number for the player means NOTHING to the game. (The
skill level for the player is determined dynamically, by the player's
control inputs... :-) )

Setup is almost never the first thing to change. Try driving with the
Stock FAST or ACE setups. Setups downloaded from on-line are often too
"twitchy" for novice players. Learn to drive first, then work on setups.

Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the
opposite of what you want.

Rear spoiler should be around 70 degrees at everywhere except Taladega.
(At least for starters...)

On most courses, you NEED to slow down and brake. Slowing down and
braking is actually an *excellent* way to win races... :-)

If you're using a keyboard or a cheap joystick, improve that. If you
aren't getting at least 25 fps, turn down the graphics details until you
are.

---Jim

by **Tony Joh** » Tue, 05 Aug 1997 04:00:00

On 4 Aug 1997 16:17:26 GMT, "David Sikkink"

>I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got
>e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I
>installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car
>would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners.

>I tried to remedy the problem by changing my skill level identical to Jeff
>Gordon's and then downloading some pre-made car setups for specific tracks.
>Not much luck. I have pushed a little more weight to the rear of the car
>and have pushed the rear spoiler up to 70 degrees. This helped somewhat but
>slowed the car down so much that it made it difficult to compete with the
>AI cars in the 95 to 100 percent strength range and I still fish and sway
>coming out of the corners... especially coming out of the tri-oval at Dega.
>The only way to stop the swaying is to either tap the wall with the car or
>slow down and brake, neither of which is a good way to win races.

>Any suggestions???

Setup mechanics is a very broad subject, and the troubleshooting
differs from driver to driver, depending on how a particular driver
"feels out" his car. With that in mind, here are a few tips:

You're suffering from a loose condition on your race car. Generally,
adding spoiler helps at certain tracks, but the rear weight you're
putting in the car can negate that effect. Check your shock settings.
If they're too stiff, especially in the right rear, your wheels will
lose grip in the turns. Softer shocks allow more chassis roll and
tighten the car up. Also, check your tire pressure -- over-inflated
tires do not allow the *** patch full contact on the racing
surface.

A good method of quickly curing a loose condition is adding
cross-weight to the car (otherwise known as adding wedge). You'll
want to add maybe 5-10 pounds of cross-weight to the car to help
tighten it up. This is something you can play with during pit stops
and will allow you to "chase" the setup as a race goes on.

Watch out, though -- you don't want to eliminate your oversteer (loose
condition/fishtailing) completely. A loose race car is faster than a
car with a push (understeer) -- which, if you don't know, means that
the car will not want to turn in the corners. Your ideal baseline
setup will start out loose for 10-12 laps, but will start "coming in"
to a neutral setting as the race wears on. Your N2 manual should go
into a little more depth about all this.

Hope this helps you out!

Tony
--

Papyrus Design Group, Inc.
The views expressed in this message are mine entirely
and do not represent Papyrus or Sierra in any official capacity.

by **Rickey Clodfelte** » Tue, 05 Aug 1997 04:00:00

(Buncha stuff snipped)

This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of
thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater
amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has
some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand
how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his
car.

Just wondering,

RICKEY

by **Handy^ma** » Tue, 05 Aug 1997 04:00:00

> Re: N2 Loose Exiting the corners

> Consider these options:

> 1. First, on the lighter side--never do anything like Jeff Gordon--always
> do as Earnhardt, Waltrip, Marcis, Rudd, Marlin, Martin or anyone else !!!
> :)

> 2. Seriously, "loose out the corners"

> a. lower left front tire pressure OR
> b. stiffen LF shock OR
> c. raise LR tire pressure OR
> d..stiffen LR shock

> try each one separately--then race abt 5-10 laps and see if it helped. If
> a did not then ADD b and on and on.

> My guess is youll correct it with lowering LF tire press' and maybe a bit
> of soften' of LF shock

> #3. Next time you visit the website called "theuspits" look for a
> file called Jan Kohls "NASCAR Setup Guide" print it out and save it. ( I
> think its at this site)

> Steve

By the way, and I know this is gonna sound STUPID,if it
isnt,,,,but,,,,your autosteer
isnt turned on is it? just wondering,,,I went through about twenty
minutes of agony
after accidentally turning this on, once without realising it...
<shrugs> who knows??

--
Sit down,,Strap in,,Shut up,,Hang on,,Go fast,,Turn left,,Kiss Trophy
Girl
GGGGGGgoooo #3,,,31,,,28,,,94,,,6,,,5,,,18,,,8,,,
Handy^man

by **Patrick L. Dots** » Tue, 05 Aug 1997 04:00:00

>On 4 Aug 1997 16:17:26 GMT, "David Sikkink"

>>I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I downl oaded the N2 demo and got
>>e***d enough to buy the full version of NASCAR2. However, when I
>>installed the full version and hopped into the drivers seat I found the car
>>would fishtail and then sway back and forth after coming out of corners.

>You're suffering from a loose condition on your race car. Generally,
>adding spoiler helps at certain tracks, but the rear weight you're
>putting in the car can negate that effect. Check your shock settings.

Moving the weight bias toward the rear will loosen the car and cause
it to fishtail. Move the weight toward the front of the car until
you can control it. Adding spoiler is a finer control over handling of
the car and won't overcome the effect of too much weight on the rear.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick L. Dotson Delco Electronics IWCC #98 Mountain Dew
Kokomo, Indiana Audio Systems - Playback Can-Am Motor Sports
R328 1-1293 Lead Mechanical Engineer Chevrolet-Monte Carlo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Crash** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

Re: N2 Loose Exiting the corners

Consider these options:

1. First, on the lighter side--never do anything like Jeff Gordon--always
do as Earnhardt, Waltrip, Marcis, Rudd, Marlin, Martin or anyone else !!!
:)

2. Seriously, "loose out the corners"

a. lower left front tire pressure OR
b. stiffen LF shock OR
c. raise LR tire pressure OR
d..stiffen LR shock

try each one separately--then race abt 5-10 laps and see if it helped. If
a did not then ADD b and on and on.

My guess is youll correct it with lowering LF tire press' and maybe a bit
of soften' of LF shock

#3. Next time you visit the website called "theuspits" look for a
file called Jan Kohls "NASCAR Setup Guide" print it out and save it. ( I
think its at this site)

Steve

by **Crash** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey02.
news.aol.com!not-for-mail

Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
Subject: Re: N2 Car fishtailing (Setup Problem)
Date: 5 Aug 1997 02:13:17 GMT
Lines: 28

NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder02.news.aol.com

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Re: N2 Loose Exiting the corners

Consider these options:

1. First, on the lighter side--never do anything like Jeff Gordon--always
do as Earnhardt, Waltrip, Marcis, Rudd, Marlin, Martin or anyone else !!!
:)

2. Seriously, "loose out the corners"

a. lower left front tire pressure OR
b. stiffen LF shock OR
c. raise LR tire pressure OR
d..stiffen LR shock

try each one separately--then race abt 5-10 laps and see if it helped. If
a did not then ADD b and on and on.

My guess is youll correct it with lowering LF tire press' and maybe a bit
of soften' of LF shock

#3. Next time you visit the website called "theuspits" look for a
file called Jan Kohls "NASCAR Setup Guide" print it out and save it. ( I
think its at this site)

Steve

<

Re: Loose outa the corners

Definately, confirmed, go here and d/l Jan Kohls Setup Guides

http://www.theuspits.com/raceline.html

look for "quik Fix Guide for N2 and N1

Steve

by **Jim Sokolof** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

> > Any suggestions???

By private e-mail exchange, we determined that he had his Steering
Hinder turned on...

Everyone: Turn OFF steering help. It doesn't... :-)

---Jim

PS: Probably FAQ material...

by **Cheek J** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

> >> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the
> >> opposite of what you want.

> >> ---Jim

> >This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of
> >thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater
> >amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has
> >some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand
> >how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his
> >car.

> >Just wondering,

> >RICKEY

> If you were driving relatively straight, perhaps. However, when you
> go around a turn, the more weight in the rear you have, the more
> momentum the rear of the car has, making it 'want' to continue in the
> same path it's already going (as opposed to the way you point the
> front of the car to face), causing the car to fishtail and/or be
> 'loose.'

Oh, No!! It's the weight bias thing again!!!!:)
More rear weight will make the car loose, felt best on the ovals.
Actually, Jim & co did get it right, although I did'nt believe them
initially....
If you move the bias way fwd, the car will really bite on the turn in,
it will be loose, but as the car settles down, it will start to push.
On the road courses, I set the weight almost max fwd, and stiffen the
rear shocks up to a point where they are almost identical to the fronts.
This way the car turns in sharply, and does'nt push in mid-corner.
This setup is not recommendable on the ovals, though, as you will find
your rear bumper pasted to the wall...:)
Happy to see they found a cure for the fishtailing, I would have
suggested too much steering lock..

Matt

--
Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars
Flatebyveien 5, N-1792 Norway
Fax (+47) 69 19 02 55
Mobile: (+47) 92 44 66 50
http://home.sn.no/~kareknut/
-----Please Remove "NoSpam" when replying.-----

by **Chri** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

Going into the corner, the added weight in the rear will cause you to be
looser. But out of the corner it should tighten it up a bit. Decreasing
the LR shock will help cure a loose car because it will transfer more
weight to that corner of the car under acceleration. Give it a try, it
always works for me.

Also, maybe you are driving it to hard.....Slow Down a little.

> On Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:19:45 -0400, Rickey Clodfelter

> >(Buncha stuff snipped)

> >> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the
> >> opposite of what you want.

> >> ---Jim

> >This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of
> >thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater
> >amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has
> >some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand
> >how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his
> >car.

> >Just wondering,

> >RICKEY

> If you were driving relatively straight, perhaps. However, when you
> go around a turn, the more weight in the rear you have, the more
> momentum the rear of the car has, making it 'want' to continue in the
> same path it's already going (as opposed to the way you point the
> front of the car to face), causing the car to fishtail and/or be
> 'loose.'

by **Handy^ma** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

> > > Any suggestions???

> By private e-mail exchange, we determined that he had his Steering
> Hinder turned on...

> Everyone: Turn OFF steering help. It doesn't... :-)

> ---Jim

> PS: Probably FAQ material...

hehe,,,I was right ;) but a little late, I see...I accidentally turned
this on while
setting up for a race once,,,,and had never used it, so I didnt know
WHAT the heck
was Wrong! took a few minutes to figure it out...by the way, a lot of
folks seem so interested in cheating,,,anyone ever thought what a little
code piddling could do to
the steering help function? hmmm,,, steering help, auto shift and
brake,,, Almost
sounds like AI, or an autodrive robot, doesnt it? I have often wondered
if some havent
actually tried this,,, would make for nice laps, to just turn the
throttle on and let
go of the wheel ???? I would hope not, but to hear some of the folks on
this NG talk,
there are SEVERAL people capable of such a hack,,, makes you wonder, huh
?
--
Sit down,,Strap in,,Shut up,,Hang on,,Go fast,,Turn left,,Kiss Trophy
Girl
GGGGGGgoooo #3,,,31,,,28,,,94,,,6,,,5,,,18,,,8,,,
Handy^man

by **Skeeter Hartw** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

On Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:19:45 -0400, Rickey Clodfelter

>(Buncha stuff snipped)

>> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the
>> opposite of what you want.

>> ---Jim

>This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of
>thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater
>amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has
>some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand
>how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his
>car.

>Just wondering,

>RICKEY

If you were driving relatively straight, perhaps. However, when you
go around a turn, the more weight in the rear you have, the more
momentum the rear of the car has, making it 'want' to continue in the
same path it's already going (as opposed to the way you point the
front of the car to face), causing the car to fishtail and/or be
'loose.'

by **Patrick L. Dots** » Wed, 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00

>2. Seriously, "loose out the corners"

>a. lower left front tire pressure OR
>b. stiffen LF shock OR

Don't the effects of these two changes cancel each other
out? In my experience, stiffening the LF shock will tighten
the car on exit, but lowering LF tire pressure will have the
opposite effect - and to a greater degree.

For me, it seems that both of these options _loosen_ the
car on exit. I usually raise the LF pressure/stiffen LF
shock and lower LR pressure/soften LR shock to tighten
the car on exit.

Of course the tire pressure adjustment has a greater effect
while the shock adjustment is more of a fine-tune operation.

Can someone else comment on this? Maybe I'm on the wrong
track with these settings...

Thanks,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick L. Dotson Delco Electronics IWCC #98 Mountain Dew
Kokomo, Indiana Audio Systems - Playback Can-Am Motor Sports
R328 1-1293 Lead Mechanical Engineer Chevrolet-Monte Carlo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **maxwel** » Thu, 07 Aug 1997 04:00:00

> >> Pushing weight to the rear will make the car LOOSER. This is the
> >> opposite of what you want.

> >This statement sounds very funny to me. I always thought the school of
> >thought on weight distribution was the tires carrying the greater
> >amounts of weight ideally gained more relative traction. Unless he has
> >some kind of extreme diagonal weight differential, I can't understand
> >how one could say adding weight to the rear wouldn't help tighten up his
> >car.

> This is somewhat off on a tangent, but I've always heard the scariest
> handling car on the road was the Porsche 911, which has a rear weight
> bias. It always went down the same way:
> Enter a corner hard.
> Car gets loose
> Driver gets scared and chops the throttle.
> Car gets WAY ugly, and goes right around.

> I suppose you have more inital traction at the rear, but once you get
> a weight like that moving, it's harder to stop.
> I'm no engineer or expert, but that's the way I'd interpret it.
> Comments welcome.

> --

this is discribed as "lift throttle oversteer". and the only way to cure
the condition when it starts is to plant the throttle hard and drive the
car off the turn. this is true in nascar as well. if you find the car
getting loose coming off the turn and you lift off the gas abruptly then
the loose condition will worsen and the car will come right around on you.
martinsville is a track that this happens quite easily at. this can be used
to your benifit if the car is tight coming off. if when you apply the gas
to drive off the turn it starts to push burping the gas quick can get it
loose enough to drive off with out hitting the wall.
--
maxwell