rec.autos.simulators

by **Greg Cisk** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

"Workload" can be from many things. The one thing that
racing sims have easier than flightsims is terrain rendering.
Once the track is loaded into memory you are set. In flightsims
you constantly have to go back to the CD for another piece
or satellite terrain data. Plus there are potentially many more
AI objects to keep track of (sometimes several dozen). Plus
digitized radio messages all over the place. Then throw in a
Dynamic warring campaign? Forget about it :-)

The basic comparison of a flightmodel Vs driving model can
be somewhat equal. But that is about it.

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>> A flight sim has a lot more work load than a racing sim.

>Interesting comment and one that I suspect is untrue or at the very
>least misleading in terms of todays mass market entertainment products.
>I would say it was untrue also in terms of the physics involved, but
>that's not a conversation that will have any relevance to computer
>simulations of real world physics for perhaps hundreds of years.

>--
>Suck The Goat

by **Nosfera** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 28 Jan 98 19:15:41 GMT, "Piers C. Structures"

>Interesting comment and one that I suspect is untrue or at the very
>least misleading in terms of todays mass market entertainment products.
>I would say it was untrue also in terms of the physics involved, but
>that's not a conversation that will have any relevance to computer
>simulations of real world physics for perhaps hundreds of years.

What a crock of nothingness. Why don't you go give SU-27 Flanker a
spin and then come back when you know what the hell you're talking
about. Until then your input is worthless.
--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 28 Jan 98 19:15:41 GMT, "Piers C. Structures"

>Interesting comment and one that I suspect is untrue or at the very
>least misleading in terms of todays mass market entertainment products.
>I would say it was untrue also in terms of the physics involved, but
>that's not a conversation that will have any relevance to computer
>simulations of real world physics for perhaps hundreds of years.

I meant on the user and not the computer. Duh!

--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Jim Sokolof** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:32:04 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

> >I hate to break in here again, but :-) The difference in framerate
> >from Nascar1 to Nascar2 is astounding. Is this not the case?

> Isn't it amazing what you can do when the effective screen size to be
> rendered is shrunk....?

It's far more amazing what you can do when you can afford to optimize
the texture mapper for a Pentium at the expense of 486-performance
rather than the other way around... (Because Pentiums are way more
common *** machines than 486s, which was decidedly not true when N1
came out...)

The arcade (F10) driving views are still tons faster in N2 on anything
higher than a 486 and the screen sizes are the same there...

---Jim

by **Nosfera** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>I have to admit it *seems* that way - the mechanics of tyre / road
>interaction are very poorly understood compared to the relatively
>straightforward physics of a modern jet fighter, but I wouldn't want to
>get into a flame war over it ;-)

>I wonder if any of the flight sims accurately model a stalled aircraft?
>The maths involved with that seems simply horrendous. If any software
>house has managed to do that by the physics then I take my hat off to
>them!

You misunderstood me too. I meant workload on the user. A fligh-sim
requires a lot more brain input than a racing sim.
--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:32:05 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>The basic comparison of a flightmodel Vs driving model can
>be somewhat equal. But that is about it.

I was talking about user input Greg. I'm not comparing the workload on
the computer. But, I agree a flight sim with sattelite data has a
heavier workload on a computer than a racing sim by far.
--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Greg Cisk** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:27:13 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>>Why or how were you expecting a 3dfx patch? I am curious about
>>this since I bought the game when it was released, monitored this
>>NG since it's creation and never heard that there would be a 3dfx
>>patch... Until recently.

>Because Brian Bruning from 3DFX told us on the 3DFX news server that
>they were doing a 3DFX upgrade themselves quite a long time ago. Papy

IMHO you should not have based any buying decision on that.
It sounds all rather iffy. I thought maybe you guys heard something
from papy (who seem kind of entrenched with Rendition). We
(current owners of N2) will be very lucky if we *EVER* see
such a patch. Next time check here for the real poop :-)

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>wouldn't do one, but they said 3DFX could do it if they want. So they
>did. Then when 3DFX handed over the code Papyrus went and told 3DFX
>they would appreciate it if they let Papyrus handle an further
>developer/customer output on the status of the patch.Talk about great
>support and developer/customer relations. There's no one that does it
>better than 3DFX. And Papy/Sierra is one of the worst, IMO. Although
>Sierra/Dynamix has been providing some interaction lately after the
>release of Red Baron 2. So they are improving. Can't say the same for
>Sierra/Papyrus though.

>--
>Nos

>http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Greg Cisk** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>On what Processor? I draw 14 ahead and 5 behind.I turn off the objects
>detail so I get a good frame rate on my P200/83mhz bus, Diamond
>Stealth 2000. With 3DFX I won't have to turn off object detail. See? I
>think you do see performance different than me. I see iF22 runing like
>a dog and you see it running like a champ. I think you have a

WHAT!!!! Have you read anything I said about iF22 in the flightsim NG?
I would not even try to load that smoldering piece of dung on my machine.
If papadoc could not get it going right, that was all the info I really
needed
(if you remember).

P5-200MMX on a 66mhz bus. I have no clue why N2 is apparently running
better on my machine. I have all the graphic details set to ON and have
the # of cars ahead set to 12 and 4 to the rear. I do know the framerate
is very fast. Why it isn't on yours I don't have a clue. What is you SVGA
bench score? Mine is 67. You do reboot into DOS right? No shutdown
to MS-Dos mode, but an actual reboot?

In fact sense of speed and racing gameplay is about the same as F1RS.

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

by **Nosfera** » Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:09:21 +0100, Ronald Stoehr

>You know, I always read his posts first on csipgf, because I value
>his knowledge about flight sims. I was really surprised to see him
>react the way he did to a flame-less, smiley-supported suggestion.

>Oh, well...

>l8er
>ronny

You were rude. And what's it to you anyway?
--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>...thats how you deal with bastards
>like me.<VBG>

And me.....hehe.
--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:27:13 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>Why or how were you expecting a 3dfx patch? I am curious about
>this since I bought the game when it was released, monitored this
>NG since it's creation and never heard that there would be a 3dfx
>patch... Until recently.

Because Brian Bruning from 3DFX told us on the 3DFX news server that
they were doing a 3DFX upgrade themselves quite a long time ago. Papy
wouldn't do one, but they said 3DFX could do it if they want. So they
did. Then when 3DFX handed over the code Papyrus went and told 3DFX
they would appreciate it if they let Papyrus handle an further
developer/customer output on the status of the patch.Talk about great
support and developer/customer relations. There's no one that does it
better than 3DFX. And Papy/Sierra is one of the worst, IMO. Although
Sierra/Dynamix has been providing some interaction lately after the
release of Red Baron 2. So they are improving. Can't say the same for
Sierra/Papyrus though.

--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:56:33 +1100, Bruce Kennewell

>The '2' version in Rendition is a far more enjoyable experience, p/doc.

But, he doesn't have Rendition. He was assuming he would eventually be
running it 3DFX accelerated. He eventually will be, it's just a matter
of when.
--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:23:14 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>This is with no 3D hardware. Just a Diamond Stealth 3D 3000
>(Virge) card. Max detail, draw 12 cars ahead, 4 behind, no
>problems.

On what Processor? I draw 14 ahead and 5 behind.I turn off the objects
detail so I get a good frame rate on my P200/83mhz bus, Diamond
Stealth 2000. With 3DFX I won't have to turn off object detail. See? I
think you do see performance different than me. I see iF22 runing like
a dog and you see it running like a champ. I think you have a
P200/75mhz bus. Right? Almost identical machines and our perceptions
of frame rate are different. Interesting. :-)

--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:23:41 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>You problem is your video card then. If you reboot into DOS
>the thing will fly on a P5-166. At least it does in Illinois :-)

Aha....a P166! There is no way N2 is smooth on your machine at max
detail. Ever thought of going to see the eye doctor? :-)

--
Nos

http://www.cris.com/~nosfer/index.html

by **Nosfera** » Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:31:28 -0500, "Jerryd(upstateNY)"

>I made a post saying Papy is withholding the 3DFX patch from us and...........................
>Nosferatu
>Maybe Papy is withholding it, just to***you off. <g>

Yep, and they are doing a good job of it. :-)

You'll never know.

Why should I replace my perfectly good 2D card for one game (ICR2)?
There *will* be a 3DFX patch for N2. :-)

--
Nos

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~nosfer/index.html

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