Achim
> So that makes harcore GPL simmers an endangered species, I suppose :)
> Where is GreenPeace when you need it ?
> Mr. S.
The problem with turbines (like the Rover endurance car as well) was that it
took forever for the rotating mass to spool up (like extreme turbo lag), so
the drivers were inclined to apply the throttle long before they were thru
braking. There wasn't all that much torque below the power peak (and no
gearbox), but enuf to put a strain on the brakes, as you say, and cook the
brakes.
Neither the brake prob nor the throttle lag prob were as crippling in
oval-track racing as they were in road racing, hence the Lotus & Granatelli
turbines that ran at Indy.
> Hi Steve
> Wasn't there an F1 car in the mid 70's that was turbine powered? It was
> withdrawn from racing because the lack of engine braking put too much
> strain on the brakes, IIRC?
> --
> Gerry Aitken
> ...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
> 6, verse 16
> > "Gerry Aitken" said:
> > > Wasn't there an F1 car in the mid 70's that was turbine powered? It
was
> > > withdrawn from racing because the lack of engine braking put too much
> > > strain on the brakes, IIRC?
> > The Lotus 56 B - raced in '71 - used a Patt & Whitney gas turbine.
> > The car was much like a Lotus 72 - apart from the rear end.
> > It raced 3 times - finishing two of them with an 8th in Emmo's hands at
> > Monza as best result.
> > From what I recall what really 'killed it' was the huge delay when
> applying
> > power.
> > I do believe the car has it's roots in the turbine car raced at Indy in
> '69
> > or so....
> > --
> > eD_
Rally drivers have only ever used the left foot braking technique in FWD and
4WD cars not RWD. Braking the rear wheels gives some oversteer whilst
keeping the power on the fronts brings (or pulls) the front round. In
circuit racing with RWD it is quite different, the transaction between
throtle and brake is less and it is much smoother and smoothness equals
speed. The quicker drivers al la Jim Clark have always braked more gently
but more deeply anyway, left foot breaking is meerly an extention of this
making the transition between accerating and braking somewhat smoother.
Some Call Me Tim
extra :- I used to left foot brake in my manual road car some years ago
which was not only very balanced on the brakes (most road cars are a bit too
forward biased) but the gear box was slick enough to change between 3rd and
forth without using the clutch. This made a huge improvement into corners
especially downhill but the extra pressure on the brakes meant that after
6 - 8 corners the brakes would overheat and that was that.
Now that you mention it, I remember seeing the car crashed in practice,
because the brakes had failed completely! It had cleared the dunes of
Tarzan corner to come down on the other side.
Bye,
Leo
In general left foot brakers are more smooth on the brakes, the gently apply
it while right footers often smash it. Some left foot brakers still right
foot brake for extreme braking points (Verstappen for example). Why? Maybe
because they feel they can build more power from the fact that there's
motion in the leg coming from the accelerator. But it could also be that
they've just gotten used to it in junior series.
I doubt the F1 Racing article a bit, the kind of speed differences they
mention would make RB far slower than he generally is comparative to
Schumacher.
Yeah, Jim Clark was different on the brakes in the sense that he had the
"full speed to apex" style, while others preferred to slow down and gain
speed through the entire corner. Both techniques are about as quick on an
overall lap, and I believe its down to preference. The exceptions are, of
course, corners that require maximum exit speed for very long straights etc.
As for left foot braking, I saw in-car video from Ricky Rudd's NASCAR at the
Glen a few years ago, and he was definitely using his left foot on the brake
to try and get that boat to bite at the front through the esses after
start/finish.
/Matt, Norway
Karts use a centrifuge clutch which can be damaged using both pedals.
Nevertheless, almost all good kart drivers use both pedals from time to time
especially in slow corners to avoid the engine inertia build up costing
time.
steve
>An interesting German article, mentioning that Schumacher uses throttle and
>brake at the same time. Particularly interesting for this particular topic
>are paragraphs 3,4 and 5.
John
Looking at the analysis of MS and RB, take Beckets as an example.
Rubens brakes heavily into Beckets for a split second, then balances
the car with stacatto throttle stabs through the complex.
Michael brakes very lightly, the once more heavily, but altogether
much less than Rubens. During this time he is still 50% on throttle,
then back to full throttle through the next apex, back to 50%, then
increasing throttle all the way out - all the balancing the car's
weight transfer through the apices using light braking.
The result is that Michael gains 0.2sec through Beckets and is 25km/h
faster exiting onto Hangar straight. The point is though that the
technique is clearly used - and to great effect.
John
As long as the 'damage' doesn't result in failure, I'd say it's more
'using' the clutch to your advantage. Esp. in F1, if it doesn't break
throughout the race, then it has not failed. Doesn't matter if it
breaks 2 km's after the finish. ;-)
It's a matter of costs.
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
