rec.autos.simulators

by **Gerry Aitke** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:11:18

>>Well you mentioned GPL very early on in this thread, so i think i can be
>>forgiven for thinking you were mainly aiming this in my direction. ;)

> AAMOF, I didn't mention GPL at all in this thread except a few paragraphs
> further down in this very message <g> unless I missed that message when I
> just checked them all ;-)

>>Go on then, tell me how it would be done.

> Or you tell me why it wouldn't work.

I agree with Steve.

Which i never said it wasn't. :)

GPL has killed the social lives of all those hotlapper. In some cases it
was a good thing. ;)

You're right, this normally only happens to novices.
But as far as indoor karting goes, I wouldn't be seen dead even using
the brake pedal on it's own!

--

Gerry Aitken

...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16

by **jason moy** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:36:56

From the interview with John Cooper:

-----
GPLF: Did the drivers brake with the right foot (presumably),
sometimes the left or even with both?

JC: Right. He doesn't believe left foot braking really came in until
the rally minis of the sixties. In fact, on most of the Coopers it
would be impossible as the steering shaft was in the way.
-----

Jason

by **jason moy** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:40:03

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 17:45:13 +0100, Gerry Aitken

>Wasn't there an F1 car in the mid 70's that was turbine powered? It was
>withdrawn from racing because the lack of engine braking put too much
>strain on the brakes, IIRC?

Didn't Parnelli Jones enter his turbine car in a few GP's? I'd check
but I'm feeling a bit lazy. =)

Jason

by **Gerry Aitke** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 04:27:52

> On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 17:45:13 +0100, Gerry Aitken

>>Wasn't there an F1 car in the mid 70's that was turbine powered? It was
>>withdrawn from racing because the lack of engine braking put too much
>>strain on the brakes, IIRC?

> Didn't Parnelli Jones enter his turbine car in a few GP's? I'd check
> but I'm feeling a bit lazy. =)

> Jason

Hehe, same here. :)

--

Gerry Aitken

...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16

by **kero..** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 05:46:41

Hi,
I started reading down this thread because I wanted to read some
opinions about this throttle-brake aspect. It so happens that about a
year ago I was driving around in our local indoor kart, trying to keep
up with a friend of mine that was way faster than I am. Suddenly one
of the trackpeople called me to the side of the track. the whole thing
behind me was smoking badly when I stopped. He told me that this was
because I used throttle and brake at the same time and urged me not to
do this as I was evenually going to run out of brakes.

These karts are not professional race karts. They are 200cc Honda
engined 4-stroke karts. But it strenghtenth me in my belief that
throttle and brake was not done. In karts anyway because I do not know
about racecars, I have never driven a race car

greets,

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 17:39:44 +0100, Gerry Aitken

>> I don't agree with everything you say, but let's just leave it at that. Or
>> else we'll just create another monster thread :-)

>Don't chicken out, Achim! ;) Do I sense you don't agree with the kart
>aspect of this discussion?

>--

>Gerry Aitken

>...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
>6, verse 16

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 05:58:30

Indoor carting, yikes! <g>

Achim

...

by **Paul Laidla** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:48:56

Benetton, and supposedly he only did it through high speed corners which
would normally require a bit of a lift which fits in with the extra downforce theory.

If I remember right he also used to right foot brake into some corners.

In GPL you brake like that in effect to change brake balance as you turn
in to get the maximum out of the brakes all the time you are on them, as
far as I know MS isn't doing that.

Paul

by **Paul Laidla** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:53:13

Why would it work in karts? Most karts have only a rear axle brake
so accelerating against that would seem pointless, no effective change
in brake balance.

Some people use it for starting clutched karts faster however (not good for clutch wear!).

Unless you mean gearbox karts which have front brakes where I suppose
it could work fine.

Paul

by **Paul Laidla** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:58:15

How does it work? I can't see how it could do anything usefull
other perhaps that getting cold pads upto temp quick. Or is it
a substitute for ***? Either way I can't see how it would
make you go faster.

I know at indoor places they get all upset if they see you doing it!
They don't like buying new brake pads........

Paul

by **Ed Solhei** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:20:15

"Gerry Aitken" said:

The Lotus 56 B - raced in '71 - used a Patt & Whitney gas turbine.
The car was much like a Lotus 72 - apart from the rear end.

It raced 3 times - finishing two of them with an 8th in Emmo's hands at
Monza as best result.
From what I recall what really 'killed it' was the huge delay when applying
power.

I do believe the car has it's roots in the turbine car raced at Indy in '69
or so....

--
eD_

by **Ed Solhei** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:28:03

"Joachim Trensz" said:

I do that too Achim! :o)

Seriously... "normal" left foot braking - I have nothing against because
it's both realistic, do-able and something I practice myself.. It's the
likes of what Haqsau mentioned that I cannot "accept".

--
ed_

by **Jan200** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:09:51

That's what you do in rally racing in order to control the end from losing
while maintaining the speed???

by **Magnus Svensso** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:55:34

Eh, no, not really. Left foot braking has been around since the
sixties in rallying(which is NOT called rally racing), but it's
nothing really subtle about it. You do it on loose surfaces like
gravel and ice/snow to provoke oversteer on FWD or AWD cars and
basically lock up the rears on turn-in. That's the short version
anyway.

by **Gerry Aitke** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:00:59

>>>As for it working in karts, I guess it depends on what class. The lower
>>>classes have rear brakes only, so overlapping throttle and brake is
>>>pointless.

>>It works, but not in the same way.

> How does it work? I can't see how it could do anything usefull
> other perhaps that getting cold pads upto temp quick. Or is it
> a substitute for ***? Either way I can't see how it would
> make you go faster.

Slow karts have poor throttle response, but if you keep your foot it
there is a gain in response. Not much, but enough to make it worthwhile.
It's the sort of thing you do with a hire kart tho'. ;)

Exactly!

--

Gerry Aitken

...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16

by **Mr. Sylvestr** » Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:33:36

> So if anyone asks me in the future, I'll tell them it's a realistic driving
> technique, but if they want to simulate '67 F1 cars to the point that they
> shoot themselves after having had a potentially fatal accident, they
> shouldn't use it with GPL ;-)

So that makes harcore GPL simmers an endangered species, I suppose :)
Where is GreenPeace when you need it ?

Mr. S.

rec.autos.simulators

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake

simultaneous throttle and brake