I was referring to the fact although we often think we're going to extremes
to simulate 'realism', and sometimes even look down upon others who we
consider as 'arcade' fans, the truth is, we all just simulate the degree of
realism we personally consider sensible, or feasible.
Nobody simulates full realism, therefor we should all humble down a bit as
respect each others preferences WRT realism.
Achim
...
...
That said, I've used 56-58% FBB. But it really depends on the setup in
general whether a BB works or not. You can't generally say that someone
using 48% must use an unrealistic driving technique. Although it's probably
either that or an unrealistic setup <g>
Achim
...
Comparing go-karts to cars is just not possible Achim. The stress put in a
kart is small compared to 500+ kg. car.
First of all, a go-kart weigth a lot less that a car, secondly - most karts
use rear-axel braking.
A kart engine is high reving with low torque vs. a car engine with "bags" of
torque and a low rpm limit.
Not only that, but a kart has a lot higher cornering-speed vs. it's
"top-speed" compared to a car, who might go from 250+km/h to 80km/h for a
corner.
There are litterary 100's of "how-to-drive books" out there, and if this
technique was "going rate"... how come nobody's mentioned it? You can be
certain that if some of the "stars" of the passed had been using or talking
about this - it would have been known - and used a long time ago.
A gentle "tap" on the brakes - which is what left foot-braking is all
about - is one thing, but what these hot-lapping guru's been doing is
another story. Keeping the engine screaming at 6000+ rpm. while applying the
brakes (whilch were 4 pot solid discs btw.) - hard, is just not very do-able
imo. Nor is a 52% front brake-bias either btw.
But, yes... You are correct in saying that the article prove this is a
technique used in *F1 today* - but from what I can recall that's never been
the question.
--
ed_
Achim
...
...
The first time I remember hearing of this technique being successfully
employed was in the mid-Sixties, as applied to production-based cars in
rallying. Eric Carlson, Pat Moss, Eugen Boehringer, and, as Achim
remembers, Walter Roerl, at al.
> Says who? Remember that this technique isn't a leadfoot matter, it's
> something subtle, meant to maintain a precarious balance. In fact, so
subtle
> many drivers can't even do it, apparently. I'd also like to remind you
that
> even those small carts don't break when you use this technique, and they
> didn't in the mid-70's either, because that's when I had my 'carting'
> high-times.
> But it isn't my intention to assert that the '67 drivers used this
> technique, as the arguments the assertions that this driving technique
were
> unrealistic were based on in general were neither limited to GPL-related
> circumstances, nor to the physical impossibility of doing it with a three
> pedal setup.
> The article shows that this technique is a valid driving technique, and
> that's why I posted the URL. For my purpose, discussing whether '67 F1
> drivers used it or not is moot because of what I said above, and because
> nobody here knows how they drove, and which techniques they used, or can
> even assess whether the hardware would have been up to it.
> As for the term realism, that's a discussion I'm not going to enter
either,
> we've had it so often. Each of us 'realism' fans thinks that his
> interpretation of realism is the right one, but in fact, neither of us
> really simulates reality. We all do it within the bounds we personally
deem
> sensible.
> Achim
> ...
> > The reason why he "get's off with it" now - is because the technology
has
> > evolved to such a high level that it's feasable. Right up to the early
> > *90's* the story was veeeeery different. When's the last time you saw a
> guy
> > retire 'cause of fading brakes? Or even with something as simple as
engine
> > problem... (okey this still happens but not nearly as frequent as it
> did.)
> > Today fly-by-wire software-controlled systems is quite different from
the
> > steel gas-wire "direct drive" that F1 had right up to the eary 90's, and
> > that most of us *still* uses.
> > To me "realism" is a natural reflection of what your trying to
simulate..
> > and you can bet your behind that if the drivers of the 60's, 70's or
80's
> > had been able to "get away" with that kind of driving - they'd do it.
> > Racing drivers are *very* competetive people and if they could get an
ende
> > by doing something "out of the blue" - they do it for sure.
> ...
thanks for the info. You were btw right about _my_ BB in N2k3 - I've moved
it aft by as much as five clicks meanwhile.
On another note, did you get my mail regarding the sound? It got bounced
back a few times, so I'm not sure it got to you our not.
Achim
...
Well, can you talk me though how it would be done, even with one foot,
and also explain what the benefit is?
The weakest link were the brake pads, misuse thereof, would means
reduced braking effectiveness, and elongated lap times.
Well i do.
Oh but it can. It can overheat the brakes, and centrifugal clutches can
burst into flames.
Well you mentioned GPL very early on in this thread, so i think i can be
forgiven for thinking you were mainly aiming this in my direction. ;)
--
Gerry Aitken
...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16
--
Gerry Aitken
...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16
Wasn't there an F1 car in the mid 70's that was turbine powered? It was
withdrawn from racing because the lack of engine braking put too much
strain on the brakes, IIRC?
--
Gerry Aitken
...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16
> Cheers
> Allstarnz
> PS if anyone can do a better job, please change it :-)
Thanks, mate, much appreciated!
--
Gerry Aitken
...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16
AAMOF, I didn't mention GPL at all in this thread except a few paragraphs
further down in this very message <g> unless I missed that message when I
just checked them all ;-)
Or you tell me why it wouldn't work.
Now, Steve has settled this question for us, saying that the brakes of the
'67 F1 cars couldn't handle it yet. But a few years later they could. So,
you're right in saying that it wouldn't work in the Lotus, but that doesn't
distract from the fact that it's a valid driving technique for real cars.
So if anyone asks me in the future, I'll tell them it's a realistic driving
technique, but if they want to simulate '67 F1 cars to the point that they
shoot themselves after having had a potentially fatal accident, they
shouldn't use it with GPL ;-)
Walter Roehrl could - and some of the others Steve mentions.
Sure it can - when carried out by less capable drivers :-)
Achim
When I posted this I was rather thinking about my own driving technique,
because I also use T+B in such a way that sometimes in N2k3 you see both
bars partially lit.
Achim
...
...
I really don't want to deprive you and others of a discussion, but I get
tired of these things very quickly. I wasn't always like this, but I've
probably grown a bit old. At least AFA these discussions are concerned <g>
Apologies for cutting off such conversations when I should perhaps continue
them out of fairness and respect.
Achim
...
...
> I really don't want to deprive you and others of a discussion, but I get
> tired of these things very quickly. I wasn't always like this, but I've
> probably grown a bit old. At least AFA these discussions are concerned <g>
> Apologies for cutting off such conversations when I should perhaps continue
> them out of fairness and respect.
--
Gerry Aitken
...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer -- Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16
