rec.autos.simulators

Training the hands really doesn't take much time at all.  You can easily
learn the alphabet in under a week.  Then you can be taught a "short
sign" or two a day & retain it.  But training the hands is the easy
part.  For the majority, they've spoken like this all their lives and
are quite fast at it.  THAT'S the hard part.  Training the eyes to be
able to read what they're saying as fast as they're saying it.  Early
on, many times I'd have to request them to slow down.  Kinda felt like a
burden to them but the longer you do it the better you become.  Just
like learning any new language.  =-)

--
//Chuck Kandler  #70
//ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC
//K&S Racing
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
//The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

: Enough of this crap,already. It doesn't belong here.

I never understand this reaction.  R.A.S. isn't a moderated group.  If I
go to a party with all of my cycling friends, 90% of the talk is about our
cycling races, group rides, training schedules etc.  10% of the talk is
about things unrelated to cycling.  If I don't want to listen to a
conversation about my cycling friend's holiday in Greece, I find a
different cycling friend to talk to.  But if I did want to hear about a
holidy in Greece, I would much rather hear about it from my cycling
friend, who I know something about, than to go find a party for people who
have visited Greece recently.  With threaded newsreaders and fast modems,
the inconvenience caused by one or two off-topic threads is
negligible.  These threads pop up, flare for a while, the die down.  A
certain number of us enjoy them, so what's the harm?  I learned a little
bit more about Bruce K., for example, and his views, Scott from Powersims
etc. and this makes their subsequent on-topic posts a little more personal
and interesting.  R.A.S. is a community of people who are not necessarily
like-minded, but do share a passion for sims.  Personally, I don't mind if
some discussion other than sims pops up from time to time, but that's just
my opinion.

Stephen

Get real Ray. What kind of moron company would have people who can't hear
answering the phone?

There are always 2 sides to every coin and, when it comes to employing
people with disabilities, both sides need to be considered and a balance
needs to be reached.  Indeed Daxe's comments do come across as harsh.
However, they were similar to my own point of view.  One born out of the
need not to fall into the trap that I should feel sorry for all disabled
people and therefore not complain out of some sense of superiority.  In
other words 'I shouldn't complain about the poor fellow, he is
handicapped after all and so I'm better than him.'

For me it was more important to treat all individuals the same and so
try to look past any disabilities that they may have, out of wanting to
give that person my respect instead of my sympathy.  But to do so in
these circumstances appears to sound very uncaring indeed and I don't
think that it is possible in these cases.

In order to balance things out one also needs to realise that with this
kind of approach an employer would always opt for an able-bodied person
over a disabled person.  This just isn't acceptable.  At the same time,
if they err too much on the sympathetic side then we end up with
disabled people being put in positions that they really are not suited
to.

So, to employ disabled people an employer has to way up the
practicalities of the job along with the compassionate need to give
disabled people the opportunities that others are afforded.

If we look at it from this perspective and also try to consider that all
you can ask from any individual is to try their hardest then, in most
cases we should be happy to see disabled people in the work place.
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Stephen,

Your point was well taken, and politely and eloquently expressed.
Perhaps I spoke a little too hastily. Even though I disagreed with the
majority of the comments, I did actually enjoy reading a few of them.
Everybody's entitled to their opinion; and, as you said, it's not a big
problem for me to ignore one or two occasional off-topic threads. I
retract my comment. Carry on with your fun.

Reggie

Well said, Steve.

There was nothing racist, prejudiced or biggoted in the post.  Just Truth,
that you evidently can't deal with.  Perhaps part of it hit too close to
home for you.

My reply had nothing in particular in it about _Anyone_!  It had only an
ananogy to relate to the liberalisim pouring forth in the newsgroup about
racing games.  It also had a note about absolutely uninformed people in
extremely high offices in this country who "Don't know someone and don't
want to" just because of what they heard in the press.  This person was also
somewhat related to you because you don't know Sh*&^ about me and you wrote
a post very pointedly, all because your liberalisim was offended by me
finding humor in the original post.

Please find a place in your day to laugh at some things.  I even find humor
in your reply!  Don't let the world bother you, cause, neither You nor I are
going to change it.

Phil.  Happy Racising...  Hehehe

I don't believe he said that.  I think that what most people have been saying
is that the person should actually be able to DO the job they're hired for.
There's nothing wrong with handicapped people being able to work.  I'm all for
it - it can give someone a sense of independence.  But if the person cannot do
the job, then they shouldn't be in the position.  

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ok Tim,

I'll even "Find in your behalf" a little.  The Expletives used in the
description of the hearing impaired person were, Lets say, less than well
thought out.  which is a shame considering that the person had to type a
while and intentionally send out such a description.

However,

I have simply had a ball following the thread.  Laughing to tears with all
the back and forth posts.  Many of which are really accurate points of view
on both sides.

Yours, on the other hand, no offense intended, are absolutely the most
vulgar and negative in the thread.  I don't see why you need to use such
terms to get your point across.  Everyone gets the idea.

Now, you made a reference to me in a previous post, which I don't mind by
any means, but it gets me to thinking.  Do you have a vested interest in
this topic??

For your reference, since you seem to think the worst about me.  A good
portion of my job entails handicapped people.  I do work on all kinds of
systems in places with nearly ALL handicapped people.  I work with blind
people and software for Win95/98/Office97/2000 that allows the computer to
"Talk" so that "BLIND" (I don't mean partially) people can do clerical work,
bookkeeping, administrative tasks, and yes, even answer the phone.   At
another location mentally and physically handicapped people are trained and
placed in jobs in the community.  Some of which I work WITH at other places
where I work.  One even in a machine shop owned by my brother.

Another customer, (one of the largest, if not THE largest) employs about 100
handicapped persons who all work at various bid projects sent in from the
outside world as a subcontract.  Obviously, in varying levels of skills,
they perform different parts of the whole task.

I don't consider myself prejudice, or any of your other terms.  I am happy
to see that I'm not an ***, as so many others in the thread have been
branded.  Even though, as You say, I did crawl out of a hole, I hope not the
rectal type.

Your seemingly endless posts, all of which vary little in content, are
starting to look like a crusade.

Please, give us all some background on your situation so that we (or at
least I) may know why this has you so offended.

PS.  You may even reply to my email address, since I'm not afraid to hand
mine out.

Thanks again.....

P.

Hey, GTX

Don't you get Off Topic now!  :)-  We don't want any of that SIM stuff in
here!

I don't want to disagree too much Steve, but, have you used any speech to
text software?  If so, you will agree, we are one hell of a long way from
speach to text. :)  I get to see quite a bit of development in the area and
I'd hate to be the deaf person reading the screen on that phone.  Most
hearing people can't get the translation right.

Actually Chuck, He didn't anywhere say that he asked to have the person
fired, simply that he complained to the management about the incident.
Precisely what he should do since it's the management's fault for the entire
deal.  The person who was moving the carts was most likely sent from some
agency that places such people in jobs such as this, and evaluated the
person to be capable of the job.  Trouble is, the management probably never
bothered to tell the person that running the carts into customers cars is
"very bad" and "we don't do that here."  As I spend time in just such a
training center, I can assure you that the people I see get chosen for their
personal ability.  That doesn't mean that they are "Ready to Go" do any job
on the planet without further help, it simply means that someone qualified,
feels that the person _Can_ be trained to function 100%.  Kind of like a
Temp agency that places people in jobs to help out in an office lets say.
It doesn't mean the person knows _Your_ office inside and out, just that
they can do office work and _Can_ function.

Hey folks, I'm just amazed at how many people get great deals on their cars
and insurance, that we should just let people smash em up new, and not think
anything of it.  Just turn it in to the insurance company, but of course,
don't tell anyone at the store, so the insurance company can validate your
claim.

Hellooo, is there any intelligent life out there.............

<Snip>

<Snip>

: I don't want to disagree too much Steve, but, have you used any speech to
: text software?  If so, you will agree, we are one hell of a long way from
: speach to text. :)  I get to see quite a bit of development in the area and
: I'd hate to be the deaf person reading the screen on that phone.  Most
: hearing people can't get the translation right.

"Not far off" is a very grey period.  I admit the software is poor, but
it's kind of fun to play the visionary.  If someone told me two years ago
that Honda was going to sell a sub 3L/100km (over 80mpUSg) hybrid car by
the year 2000 in the land of the sport utility, I would have
laughed.  Somehow this technology sneaks up on you.

Stephen

:>the system never has a chance to grow and improve.  We're not far off from
:>reliable speech-to-text conversion, and vice-versa, that will make your
:>telephone conversation with a hearing impaired person no different than
:>any other.
:>
:>Stephen
:>

Actually, it was implied earlier in the thread.  The quote was:

    The guy will probably work there until the store gets fed up with
irate
    customers complaining about having their cars dented (which is what
I did)

No, it was never said.  But it's there.  Although, to be fair, he backed
away from that position later which I read to be that the first remark
was made in anger.  That's OK, we all do that sometimes.

I absolutely agree.  That's where I have a problem with this.  It is a
matter of management's incompetence, but the way it then gets presented,
the Mgr. is given the opportunity to "cover his behind" with someone who
cannot reasonably defend himself.  And will probably have a heck of a
time trying to secure future employment.  Instead the pressure needs to
be applied in a place & in a way where it's brought to bear on the
manager involved so he cannot transfer blame down the ladder.  He should
give this guy another assignment, but not the opportunity to fire him.
Not at this point anyway.  Besides, we're all assuming quite a lot
here.  For all anyone knows, he was just having a bad day.  None of you
has ever had one of those days??

--
//Chuck Kandler  #70
//ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC
//K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
//The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!