rec.autos.simulators

Let me also say I have had numerous times when I have called to place an order
at JC Penney and could not understand the "Spanglish" the person was speaking.
(Im not picking on them, but sometimes its funny what my hearing 'hears' them
saying <G>).  I have on one occasion politely asked to speak to someone else
because I am having a hard time understanding them.  I did not do it to be
mean or cruel, just simply because I could not understand them.  One of my
political pet peeves is the requirement to speak english... but we wont get
into that.  My point is Im not going to slam someone and throw a fit because
someone is trying to do their job.  I have been on the other end of it.  Is
putting someone who doesn't speak English very well on the telephone a good
business move?  I don't know, maybe not.  But I am not going to go on a
rampant tirade over it.

Believe me... I have very little patience.  Ask my wife, she wont take me to
the grocery store anymore and god forbid we go to the mall <VBG>

I have a 'black list' of stores i will not shop at because I don't like their
service. I will not spend a nickel at the "Bon-Ton" because every time I go it
seems like I have to hunt someone down to take my money.  So to me, that means
they must not want my business very much.  I do not throw a fit, I simply quit
shopping there.

AND.. have you ever noticed if you go to a Circuit City or a Best Buy and want
help, there is never anyone around but if you are there just to browse the
sales people are on you like white on rice??  OK.. I digress <VBG>

Besides, isnt that what the internet is for??  =)

I just think if someone with a disability is trying to be a productive citizen
and work for a living, by all means we should be supportive of that.

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com
--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

Sorry, couldn't resist :)
--
Ian Parker

UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl
==

I am a severe asthmatic.  I have had 4 respiratory and 2 cardiac arrests
related to asthma.  I could easily qualify for disability if I cared to go
that route, but I don't.  Instead, I own a very successful courier business
where I can earn a good living using the abilities I do have (driving)
without expecting other people to accommodate ME trying to perform tasks
which I cannot do well (or at all).  I suppose if I wanted to be a bike
messenger instead it would be OK that it would take me a long time to
deliver documents or that I would hold up traffic as I huffed and puffed
along?  I personally don't think so.  I don't think it would be OK to hold
up everyone else simply because I *wanted* to do something that I didn't
have the ability to do.  People have a right to expect businesses and
professional people to do their jobs efficiently and effectively.

I, too, am glad this person wants to work and not be burdensome on society,
but IMHO they should find a job they are able to perform using abilities
they possess and leave jobs requiring abilities they do not have to people
who do have those abilities.

Every time I express an opinion in here someone calls me a name or tells me
I'm an idiot, so go right ahead.  I have a disability and I don't expect the
rest of the world to change to accommodate me.  My disability is my own
problem, not everyone else's, so they shouldn't have to deal with it if it
is going to complicate or slow down their lives.

~daxe

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The hell it isn't.  If it were a "normal" person Tampa was calling names, you would have
either ignored him, or agreed with him, or told him to shut up and quit whining, but you
wouldn't have climbed all over him (and me) like a cheap suit.  I grant you that Tampa
was not the most tactful person in the world, to say the least, but he's got every right
to voice his opinion.  He was pissed about staying on the phone for 20 minutes, and
rightfully so.  The only reason he was demonized as an "***" and "turd-hurler" is
because there was a disabled person involved and the party line is to *** over the
messenger if any of the "historically persecuted" is criticized in any way.   You say
you want the "disabled" or the "minorities" or whatever the put-upon-du-jour is, to be
treated like everyone else, but then when they are, you moan like you're gutshot.   You,
of course, mean treat them like everyone else except when it comes to criticism.  Then
the complainer is a racist or a hard-hearted turd-hurler or a misogenist or whatever the
scapegoat-du-jour is.

I didn't think about it at all.  I don't care.  That wasn't the subject of my post.

Wrong.  How did you arrive at that conclusion?  I have no problem with anyone taking any
job for which they're qualified and that they can get.  My problem is that now it's
politically incorrect to complain about the performance of certain groups.  Treat a
disabled person like anyone else and you're a ***.

Well, Scott, how would you know?  You just seem to follow the party line.  You call
treating everyone equally, "ignorant."  I get the impression that you think that I
should overlook incompetence if the incompetent is disabled.  I won't.  I've seen (and
managed) too many disabled workers whose excellence at their job is beyond reproach and
who'd spit in your face for thinking you have to make excuses for them.

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

OTOH, if the guy wants to overshadow Burt Bacharach under his own power and
free will, then more power to him.

Rick

        We need to take the bigoted ***s like you two out to be shot.

        I'll add my own amen to that.

                                        -Tim

BB

Bob, understood.  BUT... if you were doing a job you may or may not be
qualified to do due to your disability, would you appreciate it if someone
who had to wait 20 minutes said, Pardon the language,  "God Damn Invalid!"
or "Don't put a God damn invalid in that position!".  If so, then you are
different than me.

No, I do not believe someone with a handicap is capable of doing all jobs.
Thats naive.  However, at the same time, without know the circumstances, I
personally find it sad that someone would verbally insult someone with a
disability because he had to wait 20 minutes without an answer.

Even IF that were true, it wouldn't be about political correctness.  It
would be about tact and decency.  There is a HUGE difference.

Yep, and we have the right to criticize him for it.

Agreed, I am an impatient person by nature.  I admit it.

way.

So its wrong to stand up for someone who was insulted by someone else?
Actually, thats irrelevant because this person had a job to do and we do not
know the circumstance.  IF the phone was answered on 2 rings and he had
talked to this individual through the phone system (Im not sure what they
call those typing phone machines for the deaf), would he still be have
thought the same of this person having that position?   I highly doubt it!

put-upon-du-jour is, to be
gutshot.

No, when Im insulted for not doing my job its insulting for me not doing my
job.   Not because Im a "Goddamn hearing impaired" person.  If that person
was not doing their job.. .thats one thing.  However, he does not know what
that person was doing or what the circumstances were.

I guess Im a crying heart liberal (even though Im a conservative Republican)
because I think its unfair to attack a "Goddamn hearing impaired" individual
without know the circumstances of why that person was unable to answer the
phone.

my post.

Of course you didn't, that would have changed the circumstances.

How do you KNOW that person did not perform their duty?   Maybe they didnt,
but maybe he/she went to the bathroom and another employee didnt pick up the
phone.   Does that make the deaf person unable to perform the job?   Maybe
he/she was on break.  Does that make the deaf person unable to perform the
job?   I don't think so.

I think this was a situation of a rush to judgement on someone else and
showed very little tact at all for another person.

Wrong.  But if their are 3 people working and nobody answers the phone, do
you automatically fire the deaf person because its obvious they cant do
their job regardles if the other 2 didnt answer it either?

 --
Scott B. Husted
"PA-Scott"
COO
MMMGI
ICQ# 4395450

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

: I, too, am glad this person wants to work and not be burdensome on society,
: but IMHO they should find a job they are able to perform using abilities
: they possess and leave jobs requiring abilities they do not have to people
: who do have those abilities.

I am sure that 95% of the time this person has no problem doing their
job.  Face-to-face you might not even know about their hearing impairment
because they have learned to compensate, and probably do not "force" their
disability on you by requiring you to use sign language, for example, but
instead lip-read and speak.  5% of the time, the phone system they rely on
breaks down, and then one notices.  I wear glasses.  I can't read things
very well without them.  sometimes I forget them in my office, and then
others are inconvenienced if I have to ask what is on the white-board, or
if I have to run back down the hall to get them.  Because I can't
guarantee that I will never cause this inconvenience, should I quit my
engineering job and do something more appropriate that never requires me
to wear my glasses?

Stephen

: Sorry, couldn't resist :)

No, actually all the post in our little town is deliverd by a friendly man
on foot.  He *assures* me that he personally picks up every package on
foot, even if he has to walk 300km through blinding snow and rain to get
it. :)

Point taken, and it is possible to see-saw back and forth forever on
this.  To counter your point, though, all the post in Switzerland (where I
am) is delivered via electric train from hub to hub, then finally by
diesel truck.  Based on volume, the emissions generated to deliver my
package are lower through the post than if I go get it myself in my
(small, efficient, used :) car.

Stephen

: Let me also say I have had numerous times when I have called to place an order
: at JC Penney and could not understand the "Spanglish" the person was speaking.
: (Im not picking on them, but sometimes its funny what my hearing 'hears' them
: saying <G>).  I have on one occasion politely asked to speak to someone else
: because I am having a hard time understanding them.  I did not do it to be
: mean or cruel, just simply because I could not understand them.  One of my

After spending three years in Switzerland, I am *very* understanding of
people who have not completely mastered the language of the country.  I
*still* have problems on the telephone if I have to have a technical
conversation with someone who has a very heavy Swiss-German dialect.

S.

No matter if the phone system is up 100% or 0% of the time, the interaction
on the phone is convoluted and more difficult than a phone conversation with
someone who can hear.  I wear glasses, too, by the way.

Interesting question.  The obvious answer is no.  The difference between the
two is that having eyesight correctable with lenses is not an immutable
condition that affects your interaction with the world if you just  remember
your glasses. A deaf person who is expected to answer the phone can never
hear the phone.  Having a TTY terminal handy does not make them able to
answer the phone with the same timeliness that a hearing person can, whereas
you donning your glasses makes your eyesight just as good as a person
without your condition.

I'll throw another log on this fire.  About 3 days after I bought my current
automobile I was sitting in the parking lot of a supermarket eating my lunch
and reading.  Suddenly, I hear a *BANG* and look up to see the person
collecting shopping carts in the parking lot had shoved a string of carts
into the side of my car.  It's black and has no side impact strips (my car),
so I suddenly have a nice big dent in the side of my new car courtesy of
this person.  I watched as he wrestled the carts away and bumped into
another car on the way to the little cart corral.  I also noticed the person
was developmentally disabled.  I imagine he does a great job 95% of the
time, but the other 5% of the time he shoves the carts into the sides of
people's cars.  Should I just think nice thoughts about how the supermarket
did society a favor by hiring this guy or should I be pissed that they hired
someone without enough mental wherewithall not to destroy people's cars?  He
does a great job 95% of the time afterall, right?

~daxe

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The correct answer is the former.  Shit happens.  Think nice thoughts
about the company helping this guy out (c'mon, if you're not going to let
someone corral grocery carts, what *are* you going to let someone do?) and
then get on the phone to your insurance company.

Stephen

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------