rec.autos.simulators

Cheers,

Steve B.

remove "edy" from address for email

Here's a paste on the subject from an old email of mine.
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    Yes, particularly in GPL.  The GPL physics model handles weight transfer
among the wheels better than any other sim, but in doing requires more from the
driver.  Under hard trail-braking for instance, it can be tough to keep the car
in line as the rears get unloaded and tend to lock and slide.  You could just
go for more front brake bias in the setup, but that would foul up your turn-in.
 Instead, you can use the throttle to keep the car aimed under braking.  A
touch of throttle reduces the braking effect somewhat at the rear wheels, which
being so lightly loaded don't contribute a lot to your actual stopping power
anyway.  This keeps the rears turning, and thus tracking. And since you only
have to use it on demand, you can benefit from a more balanced brake bias
everywhere else.
    Conversely, you can use the brakes to keep the car in line under
acceleration.  Say you're accelerating out of a fast turn and the rear end
starts to let go.  You could chop the throttle, but that would unload the rear
tires and you'd probably spin, or at least lose momentum.  A bit of brake while
maintaining your throttle will usually get the tires hooked up and let you keep
accelerating.  In fact, McLaren fitted an extra brake pedal this past season in
their F1 cars (operating rear brakes only) for just this purpose, as electronic
traction control is a no-no these days.
    In the end, it works like manually-operated rear-wheel ABS and traction
control.  It does help in other sims, but it's almost a necessity in GPL.  It
takes a bit of practice at first, but becomes second-nature once you see how
useful it is.

Steve B.

remove "edy" from address for email

I don't have split axis pedals and have found an estra clutch will help
cure the independent locking that can occur when trail braking.  Also I as
in all trailbraking I am reducing the amount of pressure on the pedal as I
turn which also helps.  You can trail brake without spilt axis pedals.

Well droping off the gas completely us always a no no.  When the rear end
start to break away, I will steer with it and also if it feels like the
rear is gonna go away bigtime I start to slowly modulate the throttle to
control the slide.  Braking here really does the same thing since I am not
unloading the rear tires.  Also if you are beyond the max slip angles of
the tires is the rear end loaded amymore?.  

The third pedal on the Formula 1McLaren I think was more to get car to
rotate better into corner, not as ABS or traction control.  the driver
would put more bias to inner rear brake to help car rotate toaward Apex.
This also can be done in a rear car with more rearward brake bias, but
independent bias adjustment at each rear wheel would probly work the best.

--
David Robinson

Egan's Law  

The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
gear.

Yes, you certainly can trail-brake with combined axis pedals, and more clutches
will help braking considerably, as documented by Steve Smith in the GPL
strategy guide.  However, using extra clutches sometimes hampers the handling
elsewhere, particularly on twisty courses.  I guess my point was that split
axis pedals give you more flexiblity in driving and setup; and I personally
need all the help I can get!

With luck, a bit of brake early on will keep you from visiting the limits of
your slip angles to begin with.  This IS a less called-for technique away from
ovals, though.

That's what McLaren told everyone after all their competitors protested that
they were employing traction control.  The published photos of the cars
accelerating OUT of corners with their rear discs glowing red suggested
otherwise. :-)

Cheers,

Steve B.

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Yes the extra clutches are a problem on some courses.  Infact I just live
without em when i wnat car to oversteer at turnin more then with
trailbraking.  Zandvoort and Mosport were understeer heaven till I got rid
of a few clutches due to the rear tires being to tightly locked together,
and driving the car straight ( funny deal when ever I go over 90 lbs. ft.
on my solo ll cars diff it does same thing.).  I am still a bit slow on
those courses.

I think proper throttle modulation is way I will stick with it.  In my Solo
ll I need to practise since that is one of my faults/

Well I read it was due to the car having a rear steering device.

--
David Robinson

Egan's Law  

The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
gear.

I don't know what car your driving, but the groove you drive has a big
influence on the lap time.   I can get 1:25.xx with the Eagle and Brabham

and I don't have a split axis controller and don't trail brake.

Check out my setups and replays at my site -- check the sig for the URL.

Jason.

(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Oh, I dunno.  Could be other things.  I'm on separate axis pedals and I still
haven't gone under1:26.  Maybe I explain better than I drive.  But I'll have to
revisit Zandvoort now in my shiny new 450 Celery-powered Lotus, as my old P200
was a bit lacking in the snap department.  My first outing at the 'Ring with
the new CPU, I dropped my PR from 8:23 to 8:17. The corners I'd thought were
particularly tricky weren't really; brief (and slight-no lower than 28) drops
in framerate had just made them appear to be.  So there's more to the story
than pedals.....FPS really does rule in GPL.  Still, I can't imagine getting on
terms with the really fast guys, no matter how many mhz or pedal axes I have.
I wonder if I can get an upgrade bundle for my driving skill. :-)

Steve B.

remove "edy" from address for email

--
#33
Zandvoort
1.28.56

.

If ya find it gimme the stores name and address,  My real racing seasons
starts in March and I can use all the help I can get.

--
David Robinson

Egan's Law  

The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
gear.

D'OH!!!!....every time I find an excuse....|o)

Thanks, I'll look at your site.

--
#33
Zandvoort
1.28.56

: I wonder if I can get an upgrade bundle for my driving skill. :-)

  (Grin) If you spot it then I could use one as well.  What I found was
that it's the curves in the track that are the problem.  For example at
the Glen which has a lot of curves, I'm 4-5 seconds off the pace at the
"puny" skill level.  At Monza which has fewer, I'm 1-2 seconds off the
pace.  What we really need is a "curve free" track.  Something like a
drag strip only longer and wider.  If someone could design one of
those for GPL I'm pretty sure that I could compete with the best of them
(except for at starts and when changing gear).

--
Richard G. Clegg     Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Sounds like you need Avus, an old track in Berlin.  They took 5.5 miles of
Autobahn and built loops at each end yielding a dogbone with very small ends
about 12 miles per lap!  Last Grand Prix was in '59, but by that time they had
shortened it to about 4 miles.

Don McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports