rec.autos.simulators

by **Jon Van Ginneke** » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Andre, this is true, but anyone with a hexeditor would be cheating already
if they were so compelled to do so; the info is out there on 2 well known
editing sites...that said I think Frank is a bit off in his beliefs...here's
why:

jobs out there that we would have to download probably 500 tracks to get 1
or 2 of the same quality Dave or GPLEA have put out so far (honestly Frank I
don't think the GP2 tracks were a 1:3 ratio for good tracks, it's probably
more like 1:25; which means a lot of searching for good tracks).
Not to mention GP2 had problems of tracks of similar configuration by
different authorse as well as different versions of the tracks made by the
same author (what would happen if they change the layout of the surfaces a
bit from 1 version to the next but don't rename it except in the readme?).
If a track editor is public in the wrong hands it would probably be more
damaging to the community than it could be positive.

Jon

> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:39:24 +0200, amos-opus

> >methinks , martijn takes life (and himself) too seriously.......

> I don't think so. Cheating should be avoided at ALL costs, simply as
> that. Look what it did to Diablo, Everquest, GP2... brrrrrr...

> Andre

> >Sudesh

> >> > > I can't imagine how many cool tracks we would have if we could
simply
> >> > > use a professional 3D editor on GPL tracks. I
> >> > It could, but the ego of many track creator is too big so they can
give
> >> > their tools. They can't accept that, for the sake of the community.
If
> >> > they gave what they had, be sure that all our fantasy in GPL would
become
> >> > reality.

> >> Argh Cut that NONSENSE once and for all !!!!!!!!! Please!!!! What a
load of
> >> crap!

> >> There is ONE reason while tools arent ublicly available now: Cheating!
> >> giving those tools to everyone would mean the end of online racing as
we
> >> know it, you'd never be sure if racing would be fair. I'm VERY sure
> >> everyone would think we'd be much worse off then. And I'm sure thats
not
> >> what you mean with "our fantasy in GPL would become reality".

> >> So those ego- accusations are based on nothing. Better take your words
> >> back.

> >> Martijn

by **Andre Warring** » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:58:11 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken"

>Andre, this is true, but anyone with a hexeditor would be cheating already
>if they were so compelled to do so; the info is out there on 2 well known
>editing sites...that said I think Frank is a bit off in his beliefs...here's
>why:

Yep, that's weird, Ymenard probably changed his mind.
And yes, some people could cheat using a hexeditor, but thank God the
majority of the GPL fans wouldn't do that, and I think not too many
people know how to cheat with a hexeditor.
But if a trackeditor appeared which lets you change existing tracks
easily, maybe it will become too tempting for some people to use it
for cheating (look, I did a 1:25 on Monza!).
But as Frank said, building a safety system in a track editor which
doesn't let you change existing tracks shouldn't be that hard (I
think), so that would be a very nice solution to prevent the cheating
thing.

And I'm VERY willing to search between 25 tracks for that one good
track... I think that could be the only thing that could stop me from
playing GPL so much, with a track editor I would spend all my spare
time in building the tracks of my dreams... Zandvoort 2000, Banked
Monza, Bathurst, the complete Riverside, the list goes on and on...

Andre

>jobs out there that we would have to download probably 500 tracks to get 1
>or 2 of the same quality Dave or GPLEA have put out so far (honestly Frank I
>don't think the GP2 tracks were a 1:3 ratio for good tracks, it's probably
>more like 1:25; which means a lot of searching for good tracks).
>Not to mention GP2 had problems of tracks of similar configuration by
>different authorse as well as different versions of the tracks made by the
>same author (what would happen if they change the layout of the surfaces a
>bit from 1 version to the next but don't rename it except in the readme?).
>If a track editor is public in the wrong hands it would probably be more
>damaging to the community than it could be positive.

>Jon

>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:39:24 +0200, amos-opus

>> >methinks , martijn takes life (and himself) too seriously.......

>> I don't think so. Cheating should be avoided at ALL costs, simply as
>> that. Look what it did to Diablo, Everquest, GP2... brrrrrr...

>> Andre

>> >Sudesh

>> >> > > I can't imagine how many cool tracks we would have if we could
>simply
>> >> > > use a professional 3D editor on GPL tracks. I
>> >> > It could, but the ego of many track creator is too big so they can
>give
>> >> > their tools. They can't accept that, for the sake of the community.
>If
>> >> > they gave what they had, be sure that all our fantasy in GPL would
>become
>> >> > reality.

>> >> Argh Cut that NONSENSE once and for all !!!!!!!!! Please!!!! What a
>load of
>> >> crap!

>> >> There is ONE reason while tools arent ublicly available now: Cheating!
>> >> giving those tools to everyone would mean the end of online racing as
>we
>> >> know it, you'd never be sure if racing would be fair. I'm VERY sure
>> >> everyone would think we'd be much worse off then. And I'm sure thats
>not
>> >> what you mean with "our fantasy in GPL would become reality".

>> >> So those ego- accusations are based on nothing. Better take your words
>> >> back.

>> >> Martijn

by **Thorsten Ruete** » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00

That's the right spirit. It helps the community in general I think...
Can't wait for your Solitude :)
...a lot more than a banked Monza (although I would loooove
that, too :)

-Thorsten Rueter

by **Thorsten Ruete** » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00

In fact, during the filming the script has been changed over and
over...

-Thorsten Rueter

by **Michael G. Lower** » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> > > I can't imagine how many cool tracks we would have if we could simply
> > > use a professional 3D editor on GPL tracks. I
> > It could, but the ego of many track creator is too big so they can give
> > their tools. They can't accept that, for the sake of the community. If
> > they gave what they had, be sure that all our fantasy in GPL would become
> > reality.

To which Martijn responed:

Martijn,
I won't address Francois' comment about ego, but I think that your "ONE
reason" is pretty condescending. If anyone with such tools could use
them to cheat, then so could you. I DON'T BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND THAT
YOU OR YOUR TRACK-EDITING COHORTS ARE CHEATING (capital letters used for
EXTREME emphasis!), but if you choose to not share because WE might
cheat, how can you (or why should we) hold yourself exempt from such
concerns? It's condescending. It's patronizing.
If you don't want to release the tools, that's fine. You don't owe
anyone an explanation. But if "cheating" is the reason, maybe there's a
different element of ego at work here.
I hope you do not take offense at what I have written. No offense is
intended. Apparently, we simply have different philosophies on this
issue. I can accept that. I am genuinely grateful for the hard work that
GPLEA and you have done. You are engaging in a labor of love, the
results of which I appreciate and respect very much.

Looking forward to Solitude!

Michael Lowery

by **Michael G. Lower** » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I agree wholeheartedly, Thorsten, that is the right spirit.
I'll never forget the thrill of finding Gerhard Lingenberg's converters
for ICR2. (Was that really 5 years ago?) Suddenly, we had twice as many
tracks to run on! What a great gift, given in the spirit of building the
sim community.

Michael Lowery

> That's the right spirit. It helps the community in general I think...
> Can't wait for your Solitude :)
> ...a lot more than a banked Monza (although I would loooove
> that, too :)

> -Thorsten Rueter

> > > >A "we would like the banking" donation would have much more impact
> > > I thought you were against making money in the GPL scene? :)
> > > As I allready told you, I will gladly pay for new tracks or whatever
> > > for GPL. I had absolutely no problems with buying the converter from
> > > Noonan. He spent a lot of time on it, and I gladly payed for his work.
> > > It's fantastic that the GPLEA team releases all these great addons for
> > > free, but I would also gladly pay for it.

> > I am against charging for the product of my own fun and entertainment
> > (editing track). At the moment I cant see any fun in making banked Monza.
> > Furthermore I'm quite certain charging for a track will not quite work (it
> > will appear on some website or whatever). I welcome donations (who doesnt
> > :) , but only on a volunteer basis. After Solitude comes out, you can make
> > up for yourself how much the track is worth to you and sent that money to
> > me :-)
> > I wont be buying anyones addon tracks either, if I can prevent it in any
> > way. I'd much rather make a contribution to the GPL community in an other
> > way

> > Martijn

by **Eldre** » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00

writes:

>> Somebody did a GP2 banked Monza?!? More info, a link, etc please...

>http://grandprix2.com/gp2tracksot4.htm It's about a third of the way
>down the page, shortly after Road Atlanta, but before Reims. It's
>called 99 Monza Banking and was made by Dan Chinnapen.

>Hope this helps. :-)

Danke, Herr Kandler...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 16 Jul 2000 04:00:00

It has scope for a block-buster, Michael!
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> ...and shown up on E.German radar screens as a missle headed for
> E.Berlin, thus sparking a cataclysmic worldwide incident. Damn, we could
> take your movie in all sorts of different directions, Bruce...!

> Michael Lowery

> > Would've been quite spectacular if he'd taken out a few border guards on
the
> > way! :-)

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

> > > > Yes, no doubt he could of (sic).
> > > > For example, the finale could have been held at Avus and seen Sarti
> > spear
> > > > off the banking at one end and disappear into East Berlin. ect ect

> > > LMAO!

> > > Good one Bruce!

> > > --
> > > All the best,
> > > Ed Solheim
> > > ** Proud member of the GPLEA **
> > > (Remove SPAM-GUARD in address to reply)

by **amos-opu** » Sun, 16 Jul 2000 04:00:00

But should he be the one to decide what is best for us?

Sudesh

> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:39:24 +0200, amos-opus

> >methinks , martijn takes life (and himself) too seriously.......

> I don't think so. Cheating should be avoided at ALL costs, simply as
> that. Look what it did to Diablo, Everquest, GP2... brrrrrr...

> Andre

> >Sudesh

> >> > > I can't imagine how many cool tracks we would have if we could simply
> >> > > use a professional 3D editor on GPL tracks. I
> >> > It could, but the ego of many track creator is too big so they can give
> >> > their tools. They can't accept that, for the sake of the community. If
> >> > they gave what they had, be sure that all our fantasy in GPL would become
> >> > reality.

> >> Argh Cut that NONSENSE once and for all !!!!!!!!! Please!!!! What a load of
> >> crap!

> >> There is ONE reason while tools arent ublicly available now: Cheating!
> >> giving those tools to everyone would mean the end of online racing as we
> >> know it, you'd never be sure if racing would be fair. I'm VERY sure
> >> everyone would think we'd be much worse off then. And I'm sure thats not
> >> what you mean with "our fantasy in GPL would become reality".

> >> So those ego- accusations are based on nothing. Better take your words
> >> back.

> >> Martijn

by **Andre Warring** » Sun, 16 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:26:22 +0200, amos-opus

>Hahahahah, it's the result of total ineptitude at typing and a wireless
>keyboard running out of batteries.......

Ok, that explains it :)

Andre

>Sudesh

>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:24:09 +0200, amos-opus

>> >anybody ever thinl ed might be playing with your heads?

>> >and ed, i couldn't find your camper at LM...pity!

>> Can someone translate this for me please?

>> Andre

by **Andre Warring** » Sun, 16 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:27:06 +0200, amos-opus

>But should he be the one to decide what is best for us?

If someone has a tool which could cause cheating, yes, he should be
clever enough not to release it.

Andre

>Sudesh

>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:39:24 +0200, amos-opus

>> >methinks , martijn takes life (and himself) too seriously.......

>> I don't think so. Cheating should be avoided at ALL costs, simply as
>> that. Look what it did to Diablo, Everquest, GP2... brrrrrr...

>> Andre

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 17 Jul 2000 04:00:00

No, but he can certainly decide what's best for *him* and if that includes
not agreeing to release "stuff" then that's his prerogative.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> But should he be the one to decide what is best for us?

> Sudesh

> > On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:39:24 +0200, amos-opus

> > >methinks , martijn takes life (and himself) too seriously.......

> > I don't think so. Cheating should be avoided at ALL costs, simply as
> > that. Look what it did to Diablo, Everquest, GP2... brrrrrr...

> > Andre

> > >Sudesh

> > >> > > I can't imagine how many cool tracks we would have if we could
simply
> > >> > > use a professional 3D editor on GPL tracks. I
> > >> > It could, but the ego of many track creator is too big so they can
give
> > >> > their tools. They can't accept that, for the sake of the
community. If
> > >> > they gave what they had, be sure that all our fantasy in GPL would
become
> > >> > reality.

> > >> Argh Cut that NONSENSE once and for all !!!!!!!!! Please!!!! What a
load of
> > >> crap!

> > >> There is ONE reason while tools arent ublicly available now:
Cheating!
> > >> giving those tools to everyone would mean the end of online racing as
we
> > >> know it, you'd never be sure if racing would be fair. I'm VERY sure
> > >> everyone would think we'd be much worse off then. And I'm sure thats
not
> > >> what you mean with "our fantasy in GPL would become reality".

> > >> So those ego- accusations are based on nothing. Better take your
words
> > >> back.

> > >> Martijn

rec.autos.simulators

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