rec.autos.simulators

CPR: my final opinion

George Buhr I

CPR: my final opinion

by George Buhr I » Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Everyone seems to be talking about CPR a lot the past few days since the
patch.  Well, I'm tired of reading and am going to give everyone what my
final take is on the matter.  

I've played almost every race game there was made for the computer, way
back to pole position on the Amiga, autobahn on the apple 2+, Most of the
test drive games, on the Apple 2GS, and anything you can think of for the
PC.  I've tried them all, so I have some idea of what I'm talking about.
On top of this, I have racing experience in karts, besides, running on
ovals, short sprint tracks, and large road courses such as Daytona,
Hallett, Topeka, etc.  This is to say that I know what it's like to race in
competition for real, not on any game network, I know how other cars react
around you.  The last race I was in had over 150 entries in just one class
I ran.  You have to know the cars around you and how they will drive, in
order to move through the field and stay in front.

With all this said, I have to say CPR is the biggest disappointment I have
seen in driving simulators.  Forget about frame rate;  I have a p266 with a
nVidia and 3dfx card, my computer does not suffer from frame rate.  Forget
about visuals, this is one of the best looking games I have ever seen,
Pysgnosis's f1 being probably the best.  My main gripe with this game is AI
and handling.  I'm sorry, but cars just don't behave like this.  I'm on the
pole at Michigan, We take the green, and Pruett takes a hard left right at
the flag and takes the whole field including me out of the race.  pathetic.
 The cars are not very responsive to adjustments in the pits.  I have yet
to find a setting that gives you smooth steering through the corners.  You
can't apply the brakes even in little increments without them locking up
and you pushing into the wall.  And about this yellow flag thing!  First
there is none in the original, people told you need full course yellows, so
in the patch you give us local yellows, and the cars don't slow down anyway
so there might as well not be any, What part of we want full course yellows
did you not understand?  Or did you leave them out because you know if you
put them in that is the only condition we will race under?  You know, I've
only tried maybe five different tracks out of the 17 on the game.  Do you
know why?  Let me tell you why!  Because I get so frustrated after trying
the first few, I have a choice, either smash the computer or shut it off.
You know it is almost impossible for a beginning player to make it more
than 10 laps at any track without being taken out of the race by either
a)the wall, b) the other cars, or c) all of the above.  How can you play a
game like this?  Why should anyone play a game like this?  You know what
makes games like Nascar 2 or Grand Prix 2 so great, is not the visuals, or
the interface, or the options, or the frame rate.  (GP2 has one of the
harder interfaces of the games I've tried.)  What makes these games great
is the fact that not only can you control the car around the track, and you
can customize them enough to get a decent frame rate, but when you find the
right difficulty level for yourself, you can race with other cars on the
track for several laps in a row, fight with the computer cars, work you ass
off for ten laps in a row just to get a few tenths closer to that car in
front of you.  They allow you to make consistent laps, you can adjust your
car with ease, and you can make realistic passes on other cars.  What is
really neat about GP2 is if you catch a car that is running close to you ,
let's say you try to outbreak him into a corner.  A lot of the cars will
see this and try to go into the corner deeper, to keep you from getting by.
 This is one of the things that gets your mind thinking that you are racing
against an opponent and not the computer.  There are no other games that do
that as well as GP2.  Where Nascar excells, is the side by side racing you
can do lap after lap.  There is nothing like working a guy from the outside
groove for five-ten laps, and taking him on the outside and making it
stick, what satisfaction, and immersion.    I recently tried the TOCA demo,
and while I've seen some people complain in this group about frame rate,
those of you will the muscle to run it have to admit that car model is a
blast to drive around the track.  Even the mighty Papyrus could learn a
thing or two about the AI those cars have!  Those cars race hard with each
other, the game just needs more difficulty levels to make it more
challenging.  CPR provides none of the above things.  If you can't get into
the game it isn't worth playing.  I'm sorry, but I've tried this game about
two dozen time, and I've really tried hard to like it.  It just has too
many flaws, even with the patch.  And I've decided I'm not wasting my time
on it anymore, not when I've got N2, GP2, ICR2, SODA, F1, DD, and other fun
games to play.  I might consider dragging it out again if they try another
patch, but as of today, I'm taking it off my drive for good.  Long live
Papyrus.

Marc Collin

CPR: my final opinion

by Marc Collin » Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:00:00

I agree with just about all of your points in full, but I still believe the
remaining problems can be addressed in future patches.

Microsoft...will they!?!?!?


Alis

CPR: my final opinion

by Alis » Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:00:00


I've made the same decision.  CPR is toast.

If you want to give yourself a real treat, get a copy of Ubi Soft F1RS.
In the US, call 1/800-UBI-SOFT.  It's as awesome as GP2, with gorgeous
graphics and a great physics engine.  You'll need a 3Dfx card for it to
run well, but you can get a Guillemot Maxi Gamer 3D* for $150 at
Electronics Boutique.  

It's worth it!  The menus are awful, and some of the tracks are
unfortunately flat, but running around Monaco with all detail turned on
just has to be experienced to be believed.  And I only have an AMD
K6/200 with Monster 3D.

Your comments about CPR are very articulate and I totally agree with
you.  I have a lot of racing experience in real cars, karts, and many
sims, and I find the behavior of CPR's car to be ludicrous.  After F1RS,
CPR's graphics seem mighty dull, too.

Alison

*Download the Monster 3D drivers from Diamond if necessary to make the
Ubi Soft installer recognize the Maxi Gamer as a Voodoo card.

Eagle Woman



Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison

Alis

CPR: my final opinion

by Alis » Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Oops! Forgot you said you already had a 3Dfx card.

F1RS looks at least as good as Psygnosis F1 and plays so much better,
it's in a different universe.  It's *well* worth the 45 bucks.

Eagle Woman



Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison

Glenn Corrig

CPR: my final opinion

by Glenn Corrig » Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Go with FIRS

John D. Courtn

CPR: my final opinion

by John D. Courtn » Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:00:00

   I remember when I was in Juniour High back in grade 7, the school
used to have Apple 2E's and they had Autobahn, I spend many lunch
hours playing that game! (I never seemed to be able to beat my friends
at it, however!)

John

PHendrix

CPR: my final opinion

by PHendrix » Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:00:00

I agree with you 100% on everything but the car handling aspect, it could use a
little more tweaking, but I find it to be quite nice.  As fo everything else,
it stinks.

Phillip McNelle

CPR: my final opinion

by Phillip McNelle » Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:00:00

not the visuals, or the interface, or the options, or the frame rate.  (GP2
has one of the harder interfaces of the games I've tried.)  What makes these
games great is the fact that not only can you control the car around the
track, and you can customize them enough to get a decent frame rate, but
when you find the right difficulty level for yourself, you can race with
other cars on the track for several laps in a row, fight with the computer
cars, work you ass off for ten laps in a row just to get a few tenths closer
to that car in front of you.  They allow you to make consistent laps, you
can adjust your car with ease, and you can make realistic passes on other
cars.  What is really neat about GP2 is if you catch a car that is running
close to you , let's say you try to outbreak him into a corner.  A lot of
the cars will
see this and try to go into the corner deeper, to keep you from getting by.
This is one of the things that gets your mind thinking that you are racing
against an opponent and not the computer.  There are no other games that do
that as well as GP2.  Where Nascar excells, is the side by side racing you
can do lap after lap.  There is nothing like working a guy from the outside
groove for five-ten laps, and taking him on the outside and making it stick,
what satisfaction, and immersion. ... <<

Absolutely positively right on. Well said. Until would-be and pretender sim
race producers understand this then they are not even thinking the right
thoughts to conceptualise what a sim racing program is all about.

Phillip McNelley

The Grandprix 2 Unofficial Manual
http://www.powerup.com.au/~philmak/GP2MAN/

Todd

CPR: my final opinion

by Todd » Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:00:00

 You seem to be doing a bit of fence hopping here Alison, does this mean you
are going to change your review again. I totally agreed with your first
review and couldn't understand why you went and changed it. If you are going
to review sims, you cant let yourself be persuaded by outside influences, if
your review causes a stink then so what if its what you believe then stick
with it.
 Todd



>I've made the same decision.  CPR is toast.

>Your comments about CPR are very articulate and I totally agree with
>you.  I have a lot of racing experience in real cars, karts, and many
>sims, and I find the behavior of CPR's car to be ludicrous.  After F1RS,
>CPR's graphics seem mighty dull, too.

>Alison

>*Download the Monster 3D drivers from Diamond if necessary to make the
>Ubi Soft installer recognize the Maxi Gamer as a Voodoo card.

>Eagle Woman



>Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
>http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison

Randy Magrud

CPR: my final opinion

by Randy Magrud » Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:00:00


> You seem to be doing a bit of fence hopping here Alison, does this mean you
>are going to change your review again. I totally agreed with your first
>review and couldn't understand why you went and changed it. If you are going
>to review sims, you cant let yourself be persuaded by outside influences, if
>your review causes a stink then so what if its what you believe then stick
>with it.
> Todd

I have to object to this.  People aren't robots.  First impressions
can stick or be changed by spending more time with something.  Racing
sims, in particular, have a rather long learning curve.  Its not
uncommon for it to take several weeks to really decide ultimately
whether or not your'e satisfied with a game.  I can relate to Alison's
mixed opinion and how initially she hated what she saw, then she dealt
with some of her issues and captured some of the experiences she
wanted.  Then ultimately, she realized she'd gotten about as good at
it as she wanted to get, and realized that even with all the practice
in the world, it wasn't making much of a difference, so she realized
the problem was not HER, but the game.  In every case, Alison has
backed up her opinion with solid facts and observations, and even
though I don't agree with everything she says, I've seen enough to
realize that her reasoning is her own.  She's a human being, just like
the rest of us, and allowed to alter her opinion as her experiences
increase.  

Why are you so interested in seeing opinions be static and eternal?

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Todd

CPR: my final opinion

by Todd » Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:00:00



>I have to object to this.  People aren't robots.  First impressions
>can stick or be changed by spending more time with something.  Racing
>sims, in particular, have a rather long learning curve.  Its not
>uncommon for it to take several weeks to really decide ultimately
>whether or not your'e satisfied with a game.  I can relate to Alison's
>mixed opinion and how initially she hated what she saw, then she dealt
>with some of her issues and captured some of the experiences she
>wanted.  Then ultimately, she realized she'd gotten about as good at
>it as she wanted to get, and realized that even with all the practice
>in the world, it wasn't making much of a difference, so she realized
>the problem was not HER, but the game.  In every case, Alison has
>backed up her opinion with solid facts and observations, and even
>though I don't agree with everything she says, I've seen enough to
>realize that her reasoning is her own.  She's a human being, just like
>the rest of us, and allowed to alter her opinion as her experiences
>increase.

>Why are you so interested in seeing opinions be static and eternal?

>Randy
>Randy Magruder
>Contributing Reviewer
>Digital Sportspage
>http://www.digitalsports.com

 First off I must apologise to Alison for not going to her page before
posting. The fact is that the review has been changed again and once again I
agree with her 100%.
 I dont however agree with you . Alison has taken on a job (hobby) whatever
to review racing sims and from what I have read she does a very good job. A
reviewers job is come up with an impression as quickly as possible in order
to give other people the benefit of their experience. It would be a bit
silly for a magazine reviewer to print a different review in 3 separate
issues. From her own experience I think Alison is capable of coming up with
a correct first impression quickly and I believe she did that in her first
review.
 The point I was trying to make was that I think her second review was not
motivated by her own findings but by the stink the first review had caused
here and with Dean announcing his intentions to leave on her review thread.
 Todd
Byron Forbe

CPR: my final opinion

by Byron Forbe » Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:00:00



> > You seem to be doing a bit of fence hopping here Alison, does this mean you
> >are going to change your review again. I totally agreed with your first
> >review and couldn't understand why you went and changed it. If you are going
> >to review sims, you cant let yourself be persuaded by outside influences, if
> >your review causes a stink then so what if its what you believe then stick
> >with it.
> > Todd

> I have to object to this.  People aren't robots.  First impressions
> can stick or be changed by spending more time with something.  Racing
> sims, in particular, have a rather long learning curve.  Its not
> uncommon for it to take several weeks to really decide ultimately
> whether or not your'e satisfied with a game.  I can relate to Alison's
> mixed opinion and how initially she hated what she saw, then she dealt
> with some of her issues and captured some of the experiences she
> wanted.  Then ultimately, she realized she'd gotten about as good at
> it as she wanted to get, and realized that even with all the practice
> in the world, it wasn't making much of a difference, so she realized
> the problem was not HER, but the game.  In every case, Alison has
> backed up her opinion with solid facts and observations, and even
> though I don't agree with everything she says, I've seen enough to
> realize that her reasoning is her own.  She's a human being, just like
> the rest of us, and allowed to alter her opinion as her experiences
> increase.

> Why are you so interested in seeing opinions be static and eternal?

> Randy
> Randy Magruder
> Contributing Reviewer
> Digital Sportspage
> http://www.digitalsports.com

   I remember Alison's views being altered after pressure from one eyed
CPR fanatics. She is now back to the COMPLETE truth. Who want's to see
so called "fair" reviews? I want to know what people think, not what
they see a diplomatic or some total bullshit like that.

    Here's my review of CPR - if your in the states and can use it with
many others on the Zone - B, otherwise it's a big Z-.

Richard Harve

CPR: my final opinion

by Richard Harve » Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Glad to see the COMPLETE truth is only complete when it agrees with you.
Your assuming all the rest of us think ICR2 shoots the moon.  Sorry, to me
it's outdated and tiresome, with extremely poor feel.  Of course, most of
r.a.s. thinks SODA was an amazing product too, so I'm not sure what to think
of that.  Did you ever think she changed her mind BACK because of pressure
from the r.a.s. brotherhood?  Hmm, I wonder...

Rich


>She is now back to the COMPLETE truth.

Randy BO

CPR: my final opinion

by Randy BO » Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:00:00

with her 100%.>>

Let me see if I understand you.  If she writes positively about the game, then
she's being influenced by other people and being too wishy washy.  If she
trashes the game, then its her own opinion and hooray for her for having her
own mind????  I.e. your opinion about Allison's independence and integrity are
based upon whether or not she agrees with your point of view. Hm...

in 3 separate issues.

Not silly.  Unusual, but not silly.  Is your mind open enough to realize that
the 'standard' review process is perhaps not perfect, either?

first impression quickly and I believe she did that in her first review.>

See my first response to you.   How is her first impression "correct" or
"incorrect"?  You mean: you agreed with her first impression.

motivated by her own findings but by the stink the first review had caused here
and with Dean announcing his intentions to leave on her review thread. >

Well, I'm going to stop defending Alison, but if you were saying these things
about me, I'd be pretty insulted.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Randy BO

CPR: my final opinion

by Randy BO » Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:00:00

fanatics.

Puhlease.  I just love the way you only admire her when she agrees with you.
Otherwise, you just state that she's caving under pressure. Give the woman some
credit.  For my money, she was right each time she wrote the review.  In every
single case, she wrote honest impressions.  I respect her first, second, and
third reviews, and I will respect her fourth should she have anything else to
add, because I think she's honestly conveying her experiences.  I don't have to
agree with her decision to respect her ability to have independent thought.
Unlike some people here, I don't base my opinions on a person's credibility on
whether or not I agree with what they write.

Please.

think, not what they see a diplomatic or some total bullshit like that. >>

No. You want to see her trash the game.  You aren't interested in the truth.
The only truth you care about is whether or not she flames the game or not.

others on the Zone - B, otherwise it's a big Z-.

Good for you.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/


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