rec.autos.simulators

If you intend to flame me, please be gentle - I'm really very sensitive
about what people think of me!  :-)

John Parker

"Bogart" on Hawaii
Links LS Tour Member #475

You know I have to wonder how much testing was done to N2 before it was
pushed out the door? I have to compare it to the fact that I76 (though not
a real sim) has been out for less than a month and a patch is already
availible, while we all have been waiting for a N2 patch since December.
Maybe Activision did some testing before, during, & after the release to
come up with such a quick patch. Now if they would just hurry with that 3D3
patch!!!

done to N2 before it was > pushed out the door? I have to compare it to
the fact that I76 (though not > a real sim) has been out for less than a
month and a patch is already > availible, while we all have been waiting
for a N2 patch since December. > Maybe Activision did some testing before,
during, & after the release to > come up with such a quick patch. Now if
they would just hurry with that 3D3 > patch!!!

 It seems to me that Papyrus employees are "dropping like flies"
(programmers - the Rendition dude, now Jim S)  so I have to wonder if this
whole NRO/patch deal will EVER come to be a reality.  I'm not a cynic or
skeptic by heart but it seems like a company would at LEAST keep their
most faithful customers SOMEWHAT a*** of upcoming enhancements.  The
majority of Papyrus customers are ***s but IMO, we've been treated like
punk-kids who will buy a product regardless of customer service!  As
someone who spent years in a supervisory/customer service environment, I
have to say Papyrus fails MISERABLY in this department!!!  

If you intend to flame me, please be gentle - I'm really very sensitive
about what people think of me!  :-)

  John Parker

 "Bogart" on Hawaii Links LS Tour Member #475 <

With the EXCEPTION of Jim S. who is extremely helpful, you have a good
point, but it's not Papyrus where this attitude is coming from.   The
whole scenario of $ierra buying a small company who cares about the gamers
and then ruining it with their cold as ice corporate arttitude has been
played out before with Dynamix.  Just ask anybody who has versions of
their football games back to the glorious Dynamix days.........

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Jason Nichols

Commissioner

SportSim Football League

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

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"Dropping like flies" is pretty strong for what I have seen of Papyrus'
turnover in the past couple of years.  The reality is that there is such a
demand for software developers now that just about anyone can switch jobs,
get a pay raise and an opportunity to do something new and interesting.
Losing a couple of people is pretty normal for just about any corporation.

As for the delay in the patch, I do agree that this is a long time coming.
However, keep in mind that Adam L. from Papyrus state early on that adding
the save game option was difficult to do after the fact.  Most N2 users
want this feature and Papy has heard the outcry and decided to do it (at
least that is the rumor).  I think most of us would rather wait and get
this in there and get most of the bugs fixed as apposed to getting a half
baked patch that doesn't fix the serious problems.  That said, I would
agree that 6 months is probably the max that is reasonable to wait for any
patch.  I know that the commercial software industry would not accept a
patch that took this long.

/THansen

Also the 6 month "deadline" is quickly approaching.  Myself, I wish they
would have sent out a patch fixing gameplay problems IMMEDIATLY -- what
is the use of having a saved game option when you can't finish a long
race due to getting rammed in the pits anyhow!!!!

As always, just my opinion and they are like noses - we all have one!

--
John Parker

"Bogart" on Hawaii
Links LS Tour Member #475

x

David T.

John Parker

"Bogart" on Hawaii
Links LS Tour Member #475

x

x

John is right and I noticed those "Defenders of Papy " are fading fast
As i said before If there was a patch coming you SHOULD have heard
something by now instead of NOTHING.
   Who for example is the person to ask about the patch from papyus
does anybody know?  I don't think so.
    Some of you can defend papyrus for doing and saying nothing but
that exactly what you got, NOTHING.
    And I for one feel that If I in good faith buy a product that the
manufacturer knows needs repair I should get SOME feedback as to now
those repairs are coming along. Or I just might think this is one of
those TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN companies. I hope I'm wrong.

And the only thing that would change my opion IS A PATCH not more BS
from those PAPY Wannabees

Think about what you just wrote!

I'd have to personally concur with you in concern for losing quality people
at Papyrus;  some really talented people have left for various reasons.
However, there are also a lot of talented people still here, including
nearly all of the artists, and about five out of six of the engineers who
worked on the _original_ NASCAR.

With regard to announcements of upcoming enhancements - after some previous
premature announcements related to upcoming patches which resulted in bad
publicity in various online forums, Papyrus's managers have requested that
employees not speculate publicly on dates for patch or product releases.

Patches don't face the same sort of deadline pressures that a product
release does - and that is both a good thing and a bad thing for ya'll.
Its a good thing because it means bugs are much more likely to be
discovered and fixed; its a bad thing because it means its ok if the patch
ships next week, next month, or next quarter.

So - you've got my word that a patch is coming, and we're doing our best to
fix as many things possible while also trying to get it out to ya'll as
soon as we can, but I can't tell you exactly when or exactly what it will
fix.  OK?

Charlie Heath
Papyrus

: You know I have to wonder how much testing was done to N2 before it was
: pushed out the door? I have to compare it to the fact that I76 (though not
: a real sim) has been out for less than a month and a patch is already
: availible, while we all have been waiting for a N2 patch since December.
: Maybe Activision did some testing before, during, & after the release to
: come up with such a quick patch. Now if they would just hurry with that 3D3
: patch!!!

And if I remember correctly there were empty I76 boxes in the stores
around August last year saying it was to be released in October 1996.
They sat on the product until they could get it close, but still
released it even though they knew the patch was to soon follow.  

M***of the story:  You can't win.  Wait for the product to be
"finished" and still need a patch!  Get the product early and wait
longer for a patch.  If Papy can get their patch out within the next
month the "timing" would be the same as the I76 planned release/patch
schedule.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I'm still thinking!

True Michael, But I don't think I76 was hyped as much as say N2! If I
remember correctly N2 was supposed to be out the summer of 96' (I could be
wrong) instead it was delayed and delayed and then rushed out the door as a
defective product(I can't finish a 100% race cause some AI hits me while
I'm pitting, that is a serious bug!!!)so they could make their money and
run!. You can't tell me the Papyrus/Sierra didn't know about this bug(and
the others). I can handle the Atlanta Pit problems and the flipping cars at
Martinsville but this being hit while in the pits is a serious problem that
should have been patched a week after N2's release. Anyway I sound like I'm
starting to rail Papyrus so I should settle down and state that yes, I76
was delayed, and yes it wasn't completely bug free when released(what
software is?) but it seems that Activision has takin' the time and effort
to fix whatever the problems that are occurring in I76 in a speedy fashion!
N2 on the other hand is a great sim that was loaded with faults! The little
faults could have been handled with a patch down the road, but to totally
ignore the major bugs in the game and basically have people buy a BETA copy
for 20-40 bucks is ridiculous! Do you really think Papyrus tested N2 at
all? I don't think so. All the patch ideas are coming from people who have
bought the BETA and posted their comments here in RAS!!!

I'm winded!! Hopping of the soap box now!

Take it easy!

Charlie, thanks for taking your time to answer.  It is because of
individuals, like yourself, that go "above and beyond the call of duty"
that I have ANY patience for your company.  I know that you and many
others put much time, effort and pride into your work and I, for one, DO
appreciate it! Hopefully customer relations will improve at
Sierra/Papyrus because of employees like you!

Thanks again!
--
John Parker

"Bogart" on Hawaii
Links LS Tour Member #475

It took a DANG long time to get the v1.21 patch for N1 out (the 1.1
and 1.2 didnt fix THAT much, so I genrrally disregard em...).  So this
isnt something NEW to expect it to take a while.  Nuff said.

Mike Frazer

Mike Frazer
#11 American Airlines/STP/MBNA Ford, IGN
Prime Time Motorsports