rec.autos.simulators

That is _exactly_ the point I was making, and I have had races like
that many times - primarily with Mike Laskey, Doug Arnao or other
people who have actual racetrack experience. In these races the
hallmark was that each driver anticipated the things that were likely
to happen and allowed for them. I have many replays saved of racing
Mike Laskey, one where I was chasing him around Zandvoort and the
other where he was chasing me around Watkins Glen. At Zandvoort I
could brake much deeper than him into Tarzan, and on two or three
occasions I had to put the car into a slide to avoid hitting him as he
slowed more rapidly than I expected. At Watkins Glen he was easily a
second a lap faster than me, I jumped him at the start and he was
_glued_ to my exhaust for the next 10 laps. I brake-tested him, lifted
on straights, varied braking points, switched lines - _everything_ to
keep him behind and not once did he hit me. A couple of times he got a
bit crossed up trying to avoid me, but the next time around he took a
different line and adapted to my tactics.

I am sure that with 99% of drivers we would both have been picking
ourselves out of the fence within the first lap.

The point is that when you're coming up to Tarzan at 180mph you _know_
the guy in front is going to brake. A brake light isn't required to
tell you that. The only way to avoid these accidents is to have
respect for other people's position on the race track, accept that you
have no god-given right to be in front of someone even if you're
faster, and WAIT for, WORK for, your opportunity then make it count.

I utterly adore those close races where you spend almost the whole
race fighting with someone - unfortunately I've become a bit tired of
the whole online racing idea because it happens so rarely. There are
so many accidents that fields quickly get spread out, and I find
myself slowing down to wait for someone to fight with! If racing in
real life I'd want 100hp more than anyone else and a boring drive to
an easy win - online is pure fun, and I'd far prefer a pitched 20 lap
battle for last than cruising round half a lap in the lead.

Cheers!
John

- The Schumi incident you mentioned, but this was in the rain at the
back of the Spa circuit. Coulthard controversially slowed to let
Michael past, Michael never saw him - crunch.

- Berger exited the last turn at Barcelona and swerved off to go into
the pits. Patrese thought Berger was trying to shake him out of the
slipstream and followed. Berger braked hard to enter the pits and
Patrese was launched somersaulting down the track.

I don't recall anyone deliberately signalling to enter the pits then
not doing so, and indeed F1 is so political that the furore
surrounding such an incident would probably render it impossible.

Cheers!
John

Cable internet connections are great....except when they don't work!  And my
cable operator has been "down" since Sunday afternoon....it just came back up
last night.  There's over 70 "replies" in this string alone....guess I have some
reading to do?

I think I should "respond" when and where needed in a single post......to save
time and space.

Be back in a couple hours.....lol.

Tom Pabst

it was Estoril (Portugal) , not Barcelona (Spain)

McKafre De La Rosa

The Excelsior

"ICQ #40620378"

As for _true_ ABS, of course it helps, but why would we want it in
GPL? GPL is supposed to be about authenticity. Brake lights and ABS
removes that and adds an 'arcade' feel to the game.

The Excelsior

"ICQ #40620378"

The Excelsior

"ICQ #40620378"

Mark

<SNIP>

<END SNIP>

Again, as I said, there's no reason a braking indicator couldn't be
included in GPL as an aid for on-line racing.  It's not 100% accurate,
but if you think you can achieve that sitting in a desk chair watching
a monitor, then more power to you.  

GPL itself is about simulating racing in a very pure period, just as
flight sims like Red Baron simulate air combat in a very pure period.
When it comes to on-line racing with GPL agains other human beings,
though, we're talking about REAL-LIFE competition in a simulated
environment across the Internet, usually via modem.  In the era
simulated by GPL, the Internet and modems DIDN'T EXIST -- so is the
inclusion of Internet play via modem unrealistic for GPL, and should
it be deleted?  

My point here is that you can take the "realism" and "authenticity"
arguments too far, and I think using the "realism" and "authenticity"
arguments in the debate about whether brake indicators would be
helpful for on-line racing is, well, going too far.  Braking
indicators would be a helpful option for most people in an on-line
racing environment, and if it would help avert some of the multi-car
pileups and make for better racing, then why not include it?  

Or better yet, just delete the Internet play and modem options from
GPL, because, after all, they're not "authentic" for the GPL era, and
GPL is all about "realism," right?  And playing head-to-head against
other humans while watching the action on a video monitor IS very
arcade-like, so I guess it just contributes to making GPL feel more
arcade-like, and, therefore, is a detriment to the game.  Damn the
Papyrus folks for including Internet play as an option at the expense
of realism!

Geez.  Tom puts forth a good idea, and we get mired down in debates
about "realism" and "authenticity."  Maybe I need to start a thread
about the IRL to put an end to this nonsense.  <G>

-- JB

-- JB

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Cheers!
John

I'll try to be more clear in future...

The Excelsior

"ICQ #40620378"