rec.autos.simulators

by **Greg Cisk** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari.
Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to
1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read
the manual and started again with a fresh mindset.

Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps
(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time
was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the
right track and the game is much fun.

Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle
and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That
is a very cool sensation.

Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually
had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin
outs.

I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY*
accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake
and throttle axis.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **John Wehm** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Hey Greg - I'm right there with you...my story is almost identical: Ferrari,
Alison's setup, finally read Steve's 4-wheel Drift, and now I'm down in the
1:33's (but not consistent yet). My biggest problem is braking. I watch the
AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and
they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even
with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but
still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is it
possible to brake without locking up?

And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key.

Peace,

John Wehman

>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari.
>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to
>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read
>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset.

>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps
>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time
>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the
>right track and the game is much fun.

>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle
>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That
>is a very cool sensation.

>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually
>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin
>outs.

>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY*
>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake
>and throttle axis.

by **Kurt Steinboc** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

John,

Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? If
not, you won't believe how much it can help.

E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-)

Regards

Kurt

My biggest problem is braking. I watch the

>AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and
>they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even
>with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but
>still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is
it
>possible to brake without locking up?

>And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key.

>Peace,

>John Wehman

>>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari.
>>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to
>>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read
>>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset.

>>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps
>>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time
>>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the
>>right track and the game is much fun.

>>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle
>>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That
>>is a very cool sensation.

>>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually
>>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin
>>outs.

>>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY*
>>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake
>>and throttle axis.

by **Rob Swindel** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Does the squash ball effect work for all brake pedals?

I have a TM F1 wheel...

Rob Swindells
3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points);
9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6)
"If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time
before." ~Martin Brundle

by **Pete** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i
can't seem to figure it out!

Peter

> John,

> Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? If
> not, you won't believe how much it can help.

> E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-)

> Regards

> Kurt

> My biggest problem is braking. I watch the
> >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and
> >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even
> >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but
> >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is
> it
> >possible to brake without locking up?

> >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key.

> >Peace,

> >John Wehman

> >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari.
> >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to
> >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read
> >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset.

> >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps
> >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time
> >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the
> >>right track and the game is much fun.

> >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle
> >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That
> >>is a very cool sensation.

> >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually
> >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin
> >>outs.

> >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY*
> >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake
> >>and throttle axis.

by **don hodgdo** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch,
others change it in the software.

don

[|]-(_)-[|]

>How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i
>can't seem to figure it out!

>Peter

by **Don Scurlo** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Seems to be pretty common, I'm 32:73, very inconsistent, and getting FEEL
for my pedals is my biggest problem. Putting a lot of mental concentration on
what I'm feeling in my feet, and focusing on being very light on the pedals
helps. I mentioned this a couple years ago but it's worth repeating.
Rory Brown the Canadian distributor for the Hyper Stimulator driving system
www.directcomputers.com let me try out a Hyper Stimulator at his home.
As neat as the whole setup was the most striking thing was how much more
brake pedal feel there was. I'm not sure but it felt like instead of using a
pot to measure brake input, which varies with the distance the pedal travels,
it seemed like it used a strain gauge, which can more accurately measure the
PRESSURE on the brake pedal. This gives a huge improvement in feel. I'm
going to look into converting my ECCI brake pedal from pot to strain gauge.
Anybody have any experience with doing this ?

in article

>Hey Greg - I'm right there with you...my story is almost identical: Ferrari,
>Alison's setup, finally read Steve's 4-wheel Drift, and now I'm down in the
>1:33's (but not consistent yet). My biggest problem is braking. I watch the
>AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and
>they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even
>with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but
>still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is it
>possible to brake without locking up?

>And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key.

>Peace,

>John Wehman

>>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari.
>>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to
>>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read
>>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset.

>>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps
>>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time
>>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the
>>right track and the game is much fun.

>>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle
>>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That
>>is a very cool sensation.

>>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually
>>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin
>>outs.

>>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY*
>>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake
>>and throttle axis.

Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

by **Pete** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I have a Thrustmaster grandprix 1

> Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch,
> others change it in the software.

> don

> [|]-(_)-[|]

> >How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i
> >can't seem to figure it out!

> >Peter

by **Pete** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I have a Thrustmaster grandprix 1

> Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch,
> others change it in the software.

> don

> [|]-(_)-[|]

> >How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i
> >can't seem to figure it out!

> >Peter

by **Wolfgang Prei** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch,
>others change it in the software.

And for some wheels (TM T2), you have to build an adaptor and add some
cables. If you have to do this, do a dejanews search on "split axis"
and look for a longer posting that had a recipe and some nice ASCII
drawings for this procedure.

>>How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i
>>can't seem to figure it out!

>>Peter

--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

by **Doug Schneide** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Hi John,

It can be done. Here's my take on braking, FWIW. The goal, as I see it, is to
match the rate at which you apply the brake to the speed at which you are
approaching the corner so that you slow as quickly as possible without locking
up. This allows you to carry optimum speed into, and hopefully through and out
of, the corner while retaining control. If you rocket down the backstretch
heading into Parabolica, wait until the last second, and hammer the brakes,
chances are good you'll lock up. Try to pick a point where you can begin to
brake, LIGHTLY at first, and from there gradually increase braking until you're
into the corner. This gives you much finer control over the process of slowing
the car down. Start applying light braking when you reach the dark part of the
track, then increase braking (while downshifting) so that the pedal is finally on
or near the floor just as you start turning into the corner. This is a process
that requires a lot of developement and practice, and is affected by many factors
including initial speed, braking point, whether you're trying to outbrake
someone, etc. etc. I have nowhere near perfected it myself. I guess my point is
that in my experience, there are very few corners where you have to floor the
brake pedal all at once. I use an ACT wheel with my old T2 pedals. With the
Ferrari on the (GPL1.1) default setup and enough gas for 11 laps, my best lap
time is 129.95 and I turn consistant 131's without ever locking the brakes. Hope
this all makes some sense. LOL.

Zog

> Hey Greg - I'm right there with you...my story is almost identical: Ferrari,
> Alison's setup, finally read Steve's 4-wheel Drift, and now I'm down in the
> 1:33's (but not consistent yet). My biggest problem is braking. I watch the
> AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and
> they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even
> with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but
> still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is it
> possible to brake without locking up?

> And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key.

> Peace,

> John Wehman

> >When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari.
> >Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to
> >1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read
> >the manual and started again with a fresh mindset.

> >Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps
> >(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time
> >was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the
> >right track and the game is much fun.

> >Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle
> >and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That
> >is a very cool sensation.

> >Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually
> >had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin
> >outs.

> >I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY*
> >accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake
> >and throttle axis.

--
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Doug Schneider
Bedford, Nova Scotia
Canada

by **don hodgdo** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I'm afraid you cannot split the break/throttle axis with the GP1, however
you can add a set of CH pedals which will allow you to use a split or
combined axis, and as a bonus, the paddles on the wheel can be used as
shifters.

don

[|]-(_)-[|]

>I have a Thrustmaster grandprix 1

>> Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch,
>> others change it in the software.

>> don

>> [|]-(_)-[|]

>> >How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that,
but i
>> >can't seem to figure it out!

>> >Peter

by **Peter Prochazk** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I always try to find the point, where the tyres start to squeal as quick as
possible. Takes of course some experience with your pedals and setup. Then I
try to hold that point and I also have the impression that you can increase
the brake pressure a little bit while braking. Some GPL gurus suggest it is
better to hit the brakes full first and then go back to the point where it
starts to squeal, but when I try this I lock up the tires in most cases. I
find my 'point' easier from zero breaking than from fully breaking. My
breaking point for the parabolica is slightly before the big ad sign to the
left, which faces away from you and I always try to carry a little bit of
braking into the corner. I have also found that it is very essential to be
on the throttle *before* you stop breaking and make a smooth transition
between brake and throttle. Even if you are too quick for the corner (due to
too late braking or locking the tires) you have to be on the throttle when
turning in (which is not the natural reaction) to preserve a chance of
making it through the turn somehow, otherwise you will spin for certain.
My PB in Monza is a 1:29:62 with Ricardo Nunnini's Lotus set at 57% brake
balance and I can do low 1:30's quite consistently. My problem is not the
parabolica, but to do Curva Grande *and* Lesmo1 *and* Lesmo2 quick (I've
done them quick all, but unfortunately not in the same lap - otherwise I
think I would be in the 1:28's)
Just my thoughts on braking.

Peter
Vienna, Austria

by **Harol** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

You should try to keep some balance in the car while braking so 'slamming'
the brakes is never a good idea. Increase the pedal pressure rapidly but
keep an eye on your front wheels if they almost stop turning you have to
lighten up on the brakes. Make sure you don't lock them because you'll have
to lighten the brake pedal pressure a lot more then just to get the wheel
back rolling again. The worst thing you can do is lock up your rear wheel
tires it takes a long time to get them rolling and when you get them rolling
you'll get a shock caused by the engine having to come up in the revs from
nearly dying.

by **Woodie** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>I'm going to look into converting my ECCI brake pedal from pot to strain
gauge.
>Anybody have any experience with doing this ?

ECCI offers an upgrade to the 4000 which gives this type of feel. It doesn't
actually use a strain gauge, but a tricky bit of linkage to achive the same
effect. If I recall correctly, it was $70 and took about two hours to install.
I recommend it highly.

Don McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports

rec.autos.simulators

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza