rec.autos.simulators

Hi,

I would like to hear from players of GP2 about their best qualifying lap
times on the MOnza circuit in the game. Has anyone gone near 1:25?

Cheers,
Allan Tay

That, and also the fact that you can't counter steer to catch a loose
rear end, is why I think that there are some major flaws in the game's
physics model. We are beeing told that one reason the frame rate is so
poor, specially at medium detail, is that it takes a lot of CPU to
compute the car's physics.
If the physics model is unaccurate, then we would be bettter of with a
sim that does not take into account so many variables to compute the
car's reaction ( what with all the setup variations ), and trade those
saved CPU cycles for better frame rate.
For that matter Sierra's sims method of dropping frames when it can't
draw all the details fast enough, thus keeping the game in real time, is
a much better approach. Maybe it causes the game to become jerky at
times, but real time means exactly that, the sim is more realistic.

Even on a P166, 32 MB etc. , at Monaco, at Medium detail with very few
objets textured, the first corner is far from being taken in real time.
The game slows perceptively. The only way to keep this track in real
time is at low details. But then you lose the tunnel. Unacceptable.

The fact is lap times don't mean all that much if you don't also know
the real time it took for that lap to complete. So 1:19 at Monza, if it
took the player 1:28 real time , just means that it was a little easier
to hit those braking points just right, along with the rest of the
maneuvers.

Don't get me wrong, a player who beats you by 10 seconds on qualif.
times, would still beat your time on any machine, even yours.
But when there is one ot two seconds difference, you would have to know
the real time to appreciate if there is a difference.
I still love that sim, I just wish that, if the physics are going to be
inaccurate, well do it like Sierra and at LEAST keep the game in real
time.
Or maybe we can all run with full details, texture in mirrors etc,
and leisurely stroll around Monaco.  You wouldn't have any feel of
speed. But it would look very nice.

Guy Brosseau

Have you got any real examples of this (sorry, I don't have time to
trawl through hundreds of replays). In my experience, if you actually
put the wheels fully on the grass, the car will jump about and you
lose a lot of time.

I'm far from the worlds best GP2 driver, but I can usually catch a
loose rear end with by applying opposite lock (no driving aids). But
you have to be quick. Things happen _fast_ in an F1 car. If it's
obviously in a spin, it's too late to catch it.

(I'm assuming that you are driving without any aids (including SA)? If
you have any of them on, then yes, you won't be getting a realistic
driving model. Simple solution <g>)

Hey, if you prefer the ICR2 approach, drive it! There's nothing
stopping you. ICR2 and GP2 take very different approaches to some
aspects, but they're both great <g>

IMHO, GP2 has the best driving model released to date.

Hmm. Knowing human nature I guess that there are some sad people out
there who would do that. But I also know some _very_ quick drivers
(1:32 at Suzuka, 1:39 at Hockenheim, etc) who would sooner stop
competing than stoop to such levels. I have a 1:08.9 at Ti Aida myself
and _never_ let the PO get over 100% when hotlapping.

I've got 1:21.8xx and there are people who can go about  a full
second faster than me ie 1:20.9xx or 1:20.8xx
I've got replay on this, I downloaded from some site. The guy jumped
the curva of Raggio

Chris

==============================================================

Information System
University of Cape Town
South Africa

http://members.gem.co.za/shaochin/index.htm

==================================================

*** Disclaimer: These are the opinions of my girlfriend, it
     has nothing to do with me, my university or my ISP

==================================================

I've only been able to do a 1.23 myself..

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     1.23 here too.....but haven't played it much lately.....I posted
the 1.23 for the GP2 contest back in August and pretty much lost
interest in the game since then.

              J.Walsh

You can mail me any fast setup you have.
TIA
Theo Nieuwstraten

There are plenty of gp2 sites with setups and replays. I also get only
about 1:23.5 and can't figure how some guys are doing 1:20 and 1:21.

That is not all, the best I have at Monaco is also 1:23, and that is
with automatic transmission. Some guys are around 1:17 I hear with
manual shift. Quite humiliating.
What I don't understand is how come some guys are getting 3 to 4 seconds
per lap faster than the real F1 drivers even in qualifying.
There has to be something wrong with th physics of the sim.

Guy Brosseau

I Have been playing GP2 since teh day it was avalible.  I mean you should get
1:22.000 at Monza no trouble.  The set up you use depends graetly on your
driving style.  I mean I have got 1:20.920 at Monza with 13/1 settings on the
wings.  All so the brake balence should be toyed with alot to get the feel
you want.  I mean for instance.  I am very... very...  very... proud of my
hotlap for Siverstone 1:21:9XX.  Now this VERY fast.  I have not seen a
fatser lap it was done with the keyboard.  The wing settings were 14/3.  The
thing that made the second diffrence was a change in the brake balence
allowed me better control at two pionts of the circuit.  This lap wsa done in
practice any curcuit ie no tows.  I never hope to reproduce this lap..  I
have got to winthin 3 10ths consistently (1m22.2/3xx) but you just need that
bit of luck..  that slight slide that gave you a tighter angle on teh apex
etc.  things that are impossible to reproduce.  Note that my processor
occupancy wsa at 100% or below ... This can have a huge effect on the time
that you get

Take heart although I am a 1.21.9XX man Siverstone, 1:15.8XX at Monaco
1:33.5XX at Suzuka etc i can not do some of teh circuits well..  Eg Aida.  I
can not get below a 1.10.5!!  at Mangy C I can not get teh last bit right!!
I find that Jerez is impossible yet I can get 1:48.3XX at Spa.  My piont is
that it is all driving styles you can get a good idea from other peoples
setups but it is how you drive that is importaint and youo must cater fro
your style in your setup. And my style is ***on certain circuts.  Think who
brilliant jaques Villeneuve was at Suzuka and Spa nad how bad he wsa at
Monaco!!

Use the telemerty.  This can really help out.  This is what got my times
down.  I couple of changes in the ride height etc and I sahved a few 100ths
nad you keep doing this..  Untile you have reached the absolute limit o fteh
simulation.  I have tred diffrebt setup routes for the diffrent curcuits and
feel that it is better to have good acceleration till you get good enought to
hold your speed throught teh corners.  My biggest tip  is to set the car into
the corner so you can get the best exit possible.  Some times you have to
comprimise ..  See for yourself..  

Finally I am faster than a real F1 driver beacause.  Firsly you can practice
a one circute indefinaly as opposed to once a year at places like SPA nad
Monaco.  Secondly Because I am not pulling any G's sitting infront of a
monitor so i can go faster because my body is not at the limit. So I should
think that the simulation is pretty accurate.  

Tris

: What I don't understand is how come some guys are getting 3 to 4 seconds
: per lap faster than the real F1 drivers even in qualifying.
: There has to be something wrong with th physics of the sim.

Remember one thing, they are playing in a Computer. Thet can practice as
much as they want. Maybe just one Sunday morning can practice more than a
real F1 driver on that track in whole life.

One more point, they will not get killed when crashing. So they can drive
as aggressive as they want. Eg. extreme late brake.

Lastly, the sim cannot simulate some minor defects on the track surface
which should exist in any real track.

Bernard Shum

: What I don't understand is how come some guys are getting 3 to 4 seconds
: per lap faster than the real F1 drivers even in qualifying.
: There has to be something wrong with th physics of the sim.

Remember one thing, they are playing in a Computer. Thet can practice as
much as they want. Maybe just one Sunday morning can practice more than a
real F1 driver on that track in whole life.

One more point, they will not get killed when crashing. So they can drive
as aggressive as they want. Eg. extreme late brake.

Lastly, the sim cannot simulate some minor defects on the track surface
which should exist in any real track.

Bernard Shum

On 28 Dec 1996 16:45:58 GMT, Shum Chun Pong Bernard

 - it's using the 1994 rules with more powerful engines

 - it doesn't model flat spotting of tyres so you can brake really hard
into the corners

 - most top times are set with "one lap" setups where the plank will wear
away after the end of the flying lap

 - very extreme, unstable setups can be used with much lower real wings:
real drivers could also use such setups but they wouldn't trust them
knowing that their life was at stake

 - at some tracks like Monza it is possible to straighten out some of the
chicanes without getting a black flag. I don't do this, but some do.

Cheers,
Richard

All this goes for all the other sims of course. Its never like the real
thing.

Regards,
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