rec.autos.simulators

Brands Hatch Lives!

Gerry Aitken

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Gerry Aitken » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:02:02



>>>>You know its a real shame GPL is all but dead because I really love

> this track.

> BLASPHEMY!!!

>>>Where do you come by this information?

>>Perhaps I should qualify that statement, what I really mean is all but
>>dead for me at least for the time being as I'm having too much fun
>>with the TPTCC mod and I don't think anyone can deny that the physics
>>and feel is vastly superior to the five year old GPL.

> You are only making it worse for yourself :)

Burn the witch!

--

Gerry Aitken?

...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16

This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

Steve Smit

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Steve Smit » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:44:30

Yer right, of course.  After driving N2003 on roadies for a while, Alison
Hine went back to GPL and said it felt like driving on "wooden tires."

Think of it this way.  The tire model isn't accurate for 1967 (much less
modern Cup cars, which have more technology in the radials than the whole
rest of the car combined), but it's probably better than the *** on a
700-hp Auto Union D-Type trying to communicate with the ground thru 4-1/2"
rims!

I owned one of the first 3 Corvettes that ran at Le Mans (in 1960) and drove
it on the street with the same tires it raced on (they used Firestone Indy
tires), and they had considerably less grip than the balloons on my father's
1948 Nash.




> > Ed!  Try some decaf and stronger rear springs!

> I have - well not quite...   I won't touch decaf!

> Joke aside...  GPL got one major issue that really really kills it for me
> (having seen greener pastures (sp?)) - and that is it's cronic understeer.
> It's completely impossible to get a car setup so that it oversteers
without
> help from the throttle. Try it on a skidpad... Full soft up front - as
stiff
> as it goes at the rear - damn thing still understeers like a nosediving
pig.
> A touch of the throttle can cure that - for sure.. but that's not the way
it
> ought to be. You should be able to setup a car so that it understeers or
> oversteers in a steady state "enviroment" - but the latter is impossible
> with GPL.

> --
> ed_

Steve Smit

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Steve Smit » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:47:02

I've driven it.  It isn't even close.


> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:53:47 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >Yer right, PWF's Mosport is the Gold Standard, but I suspect it's still
> >based on Papy's ver, which was one of their least faithful recreations
> >(Mid-O being the worst...of those tracks I've actually driven; I haven't
a
> >clue abt. Rouen, f'rinstance).

> What don't you like about GPL's Mosport?  Just from the in-car vids
> I've seen, the layout seems pretty faithful to the modern one except
> for the jump at the end of Andretti and the huge hill going down
> towards Moss.

> Jason

Darryl Johnso

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Darryl Johnso » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:06:56


> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:53:47 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>>Yer right, PWF's Mosport is the Gold Standard, but I suspect it's
>>still based on Papy's ver, which was one of their least faithful
>>recreations (Mid-O being the worst...of those tracks I've actually
>>driven; I haven't a clue abt. Rouen, f'rinstance).

> What don't you like about GPL's Mosport?  Just from the in-car
> vids I've seen, the layout seems pretty faithful to the modern one
> except for the jump at the end of Andretti and the huge hill going
> down towards Moss.

> Jason

The modern track had the hill at the end of the straight shaved down
considerably. My flawed memory tells me it had something to do with
the Can-Am cars wanting to do backflips as they came over the top of
the original hill. But I may be recalling more urban legend than
actual fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the huge hill going down towards
Moss." Corner 4, the left hander, is at the top of a steep downhill
run into a valley, which turns into a steep uphill run into 5A
(Moss). You'd know that if you'd ever hiked a Colman cooler full of
beer along the goat-track running outside the left fence. <g> In GPL,
in-car, I get very little sense of this valley, especially lacking in
the sense of the steep uphill run into Moss. (But the Mosport track
for N2K3 doesn't give me much  more of a sense of this elevation
change either...) Perhaps _no_ in-car view gives this impression, I
don't know.

Most of the latest modernising of Mosport has been widening the
track. Comparing the modern track (as a spectator) to the old track
in the 70s when I did some Formula Ford driving there, I can't see
too much in the way of changes to the corners -- except maybe for
turn 2, which seems a _lot_ faster than I remember it, and they've
added more run-off room as well. I remember my heart being in my
throat every time I crested the top of the hill going into T2. For
some odd reason, I didn't get the same feeling going into a similar
T4 corner, although I know as many people who went into the armco at
T4 as went into the catch fencing at T2.

--
  Darryl

Ruud Dingeman

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Ruud Dingeman » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:49:33


> I've driven it.  It isn't even close.

Huh? I thought GPL's Mosport was supposed to be fairly close to the real
thing (apart from the differences in surroundings, grandstands and
humps, which have naturally all changed since '67), especially when
compared to SCGT's Mosport, for instance. So now I'm confused.   Sniff.

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -21)

Tony Rickar

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Tony Rickar » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:55:04


>> I think Papy have done a great job with NR2003 of getting the
>> feeling of a heavy car designed for high speed ovals which is
>> out of sorts on a road track (they look just as hideously
>> cumbersome on TV).

> Ever seen one up close "and personal" - i.e. for real?

> It's actually not so very much larger than BTCC racer. (i.e the real deals
> from the 90's - not the ***they got going now)

Its not the size (or weight come to that - Aussie V8s are close to the same
weight) but the fact they look ponderous in RL on road courses (that I have
seen anyway).

As a stoopid Brit when it comes to Nascar I may be talking out my arse, but
it seems the regulations limit the capability to turn a car capable of
running wheel to wheel at 200 mph on high speed banked ovals with great
accuracy and control to one that can manage large direction and speed
changes in a more nimble fashion.

They look at home on the ovals yet out of sorts on the roadies.

Cheers
Tony

Steve Smit

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Steve Smit » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:06:12

See Jason's comments (above) and Darryl's comments (below).  Mosport isn't
as far off as Mid-O, but Papy got the elevation changes wrong, and everybody
who's copied the track since then has faithfully reproduced the errors.
Elevation changes have been Papy's bete noir.  They got the 2D layouts
right, thanks to track maps and satellite imagery, but pre-GPS, the
elevation changes have been way off.  Case in point: Road Atlanta (I know;
it's not a Papy track).

And Darryl is also right abt. the Can-Am cars doing "blow-overs," as they
were called - Road Atlanta had 'em too - no urban myth.  At Mosport, they
shaved off the crest of the hill (much the way they did at Le Mans at the
end of Mulsanne...and for the same reason); at Road Atlanta, they stuck in a
chicane.

And yes, SCGT's Mosport was worse.



> > I've driven it.  It isn't even close.

> Huh? I thought GPL's Mosport was supposed to be fairly close to the real
> thing (apart from the differences in surroundings, grandstands and
> humps, which have naturally all changed since '67), especially when
> compared to SCGT's Mosport, for instance. So now I'm confused.   Sniff.

> Regards, Rudy
> (GPLRank -21)

J.D. Elli

Brands Hatch Lives!

by J.D. Elli » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:22:04


I was just throwing a ballpark number out, I forgot about using NR2003RA.
:-)

-jde

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J.D. Elli

Brands Hatch Lives!

by J.D. Elli » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:24:02


at Road Atlanta, they stuck in a

I thought the chicane at the beginning of the back straight was added 10-15
yrs ago for the SCCA Runoffs to make it less of a HP track?

-jde

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Steve Blankenshi

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Steve Blankenshi » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:48:54




> > Make that 625hp, at least at 70clr.  One of the neat features of NR2003
> > Replay Analyzer is the ability to turn on more advanced telemetry for
> > replays, including hp and torque.

> I was just throwing a ballpark number out, I forgot about using NR2003RA.
> :-)

Don't mind me; just another telemetry geek... ;-)
JP

Brands Hatch Lives!

by JP » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:19:42



> >> I think Papy have done a great job with NR2003 of getting the
> >> feeling of a heavy car designed for high speed ovals which is
> >> out of sorts on a road track (they look just as hideously
> >> cumbersome on TV).

> > Ever seen one up close "and personal" - i.e. for real?

> > It's actually not so very much larger than BTCC racer. (i.e the real
deals
> > from the 90's - not the ***they got going now)

> Its not the size (or weight come to that - Aussie V8s are close to the
same
> weight) but the fact they look ponderous in RL on road courses (that I
have
> seen anyway).

> As a stoopid Brit when it comes to Nascar I may be talking out my arse,
but
> it seems the regulations limit the capability to turn a car capable of
> running wheel to wheel at 200 mph on high speed banked ovals with great
> accuracy and control to one that can manage large direction and speed
> changes in a more nimble fashion.

> They look at home on the ovals yet out of sorts on the roadies.

> Cheers
> Tony

  The same cars are not used for the two track examples you mention.
They're not even close in construction.

- Show quoted text -

Jan Verschuere

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Jan Verschuere » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:41:46

The point is, in the game, they're grafted onto the exact same blueprint,
which sort of defeats the object of the exercise. The parameters are
different, but the basic structure remains a stock car.

Jan.
=---

JP

Brands Hatch Lives!

by JP » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:11:22


  Yes, I know.  I was responding to his comment about the actual cars.

Eldre

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Eldre » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:57:22



>Yer right, PWF's Mosport is the Gold Standard,

Anybody have any driving tips for this track(TPTCC)?  I'm burning up the tires
on lap 16, and I'm nowhere NEAR the pace of the other drivers in my league...
:-(

Eldred
--
http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Screamers League
IICC League
GPLRank -6.0    MoGPL rank +267.80
Ch.Rank +52.58   MoC +741.71
Hist. +82.34  MoH:na
N2k3 rank:in progress
Slayer Spektera lvl 65 assassin
Slayer Hendryx lvl 30 barbarian
US East

Eldre

Brands Hatch Lives!

by Eldre » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:57:22


writes:

Wow...  I don't have that issue.  Maybe I just can't run enough graphics to get
'spoiled' on N2k3?<g>

Eldred
--
http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Screamers League
IICC League
GPLRank -6.0    MoGPL rank +267.80
Ch.Rank +52.58   MoC +741.71
Hist. +82.34  MoH:na
N2k3 rank:in progress
Slayer Spektera lvl 65 assassin
Slayer Hendryx lvl 30 barbarian
US East


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