rec.autos.simulators

by **Jan Verschuere** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:13:33

Strange sentiment, Ed. I don't get that at all... GPL is less detailed, less
immediate, sure, but it doesn't feel more wrong now than it used to.

BTW: you still thinking about running a Euro friendly BGN series?

Jan.
=---

by **Mitch_** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:15:35

Youre not running the Cup season Jan? The setup controversy is officially
over ;)

Mitch

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:58:26

Ed! Try some decaf and stronger rear springs!

by **Tony Rickar** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:05:36

> Track look's great - just a shame GPL drives like a nosediving pig. After
> N4,NR2002 and NR2003 I cant stand more 5 minutes in GPL before I have to
> exit and get back into a proper "car" - it just feels so very very wrong.

Granted Nascars are closer to the bloated pigs of vehicles filling our
roads, so I guess it feels more like an SUV on the school run, which is
closer to reality for most than simulating a real race car designed for road
courses. I think Papy have done a great job with NR2003 of getting the
feeling of a heavy car designed for high speed ovals which is out of sorts
on a road track (they look just as hideously cumbersome on TV).

The NR series maybe a more technically advanced development of the GPL
engine but for many hurling these pigs around just doesn't cut it.

The 1965 GPL mod just maybe the more significant release for running the new
Brands Hatch track.

All IMHO of course :)

Cheers
Tony

by **Tony Rickar** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:18:28

> TPTCC, because of the underlying stock car setup limitations and, more
> importantly I think, the stock car tyres hardcoded into the game, does a
> very poor job of representing Trans-Am. For those not doing their own
setups
> the perveiling setup philosophy adds insult to injury. All credit to The
> Pits boys for investing their time and getting it out there, but the
amount
> of praise and credit this mod receives is totally disproportional.

Agreed Jan. Yes you can download Aussie V8 & BTCC looking cars but they
don't feel anything like I would expect a sorted race saloon to feel.
Watching the directional change and controllable oversteer dialled in to the
FWD BTCCs is something else, that just doesn't come across in the T/A patch
which still feels way too heavy and cumbersome to me.

When the T/A patch came out I really had hoped for a saloon car sim to
eclipse GPL as a road racer but was disappointed.

Cheers
Tony

by **Tony Rickar** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:20:57

> > > You know its a real shame GPL is all but dead because I really love

this track.

BLASPHEMY!!!

You are only making it worse for yourself :)

by **Jan Verschuere** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:31:56

I wasn't aware of Ed's plans clashing with RASCAR ?

I now have access to a server, an itch to run BGN and I thought I might
float the idea again.

Jan.
=---

by **J.D. Elli** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:16:48

How can you expect a 5-600hp RWD tube-frame PTA car to behave anything like
a 2-250hp unibody FWD BTCC car? :-/

-jde

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by **Ed Solhei** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:18:51

I have - well not quite... I won't touch decaf!

Joke aside... GPL got one major issue that really really kills it for me
(having seen greener pastures (sp?)) - and that is it's cronic understeer.
It's completely impossible to get a car setup so that it oversteers without
help from the throttle. Try it on a skidpad... Full soft up front - as stiff
as it goes at the rear - damn thing still understeers like a nosediving pig.
A touch of the throttle can cure that - for sure.. but that's not the way it
ought to be. You should be able to setup a car so that it understeers or
oversteers in a steady state "enviroment" - but the latter is impossible
with GPL.

--
ed_

by **Tony Rickar** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:37:44

>> Watching the directional change and controllable oversteer
>> dialled in to the FWD BTCCs is something else, that just
>> doesn't come across in the T/A patch which still feels way
>> too heavy and cumbersome to me.

> How can you expect a 5-600hp RWD tube-frame PTA car to behave anything
> like a 2-250hp unibody FWD BTCC car? :-/

I guess a bad analogy. Aussie V8s maybe a more sensible choice.

My point is that I hoped for a good saloon car sim and the T/A patch still
feels too Nascar like for me. If that is what Transams are like then so be
it.

Cheers
Tony

by **Marc Collin** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:56:31

I agree completely. NR2003 may be accurate, but I for one would have no
interest in flailing those overweight 1950's pickup truck technology barges
around a road course if I could choose a thoroughbred instead...even if it
is a wee bit less accurately simulated.

Marc

> > Track look's great - just a shame GPL drives like a nosediving pig.
After
> > N4,NR2002 and NR2003 I cant stand more 5 minutes in GPL before I have to
> > exit and get back into a proper "car" - it just feels so very very
wrong.

> Granted Nascars are closer to the bloated pigs of vehicles filling our
> roads, so I guess it feels more like an SUV on the school run, which is
> closer to reality for most than simulating a real race car designed for
road
> courses. I think Papy have done a great job with NR2003 of getting the
> feeling of a heavy car designed for high speed ovals which is out of sorts
> on a road track (they look just as hideously cumbersome on TV).

> The NR series maybe a more technically advanced development of the GPL
> engine but for many hurling these pigs around just doesn't cut it.

> The 1965 GPL mod just maybe the more significant release for running the
new
> Brands Hatch track.

> All IMHO of course :)

> Cheers
> Tony

by **Ed Solhei** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:52:45

> > Track look's great - just a shame GPL drives like a nosediving pig.
After
> > N4,NR2002 and NR2003 I cant stand more 5 minutes in GPL before I have to
> > exit and get back into a proper "car" - it just feels so very very
wrong.

> Granted Nascars are closer to the bloated pigs of vehicles filling our
> roads, so I guess it feels more like an SUV on the school run, which is
> closer to reality for most than simulating a real race car designed for
road
> courses. I think Papy have done a great job with NR2003 of getting the
> feeling of a heavy car designed for high speed ovals which is out of sorts
> on a road track (they look just as hideously cumbersome on TV).

Ever seen one up close "and personal" - i.e. for real?

It's actually not so very much larger than BTCC racer. (i.e the real deals
from the 90's - not the ***they got going now)

--
ed_

by **Steve Blankenshi** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:50:03

> > Watching the directional change and controllable oversteer dialled in to
> the
> > FWD BTCCs is something else, that just doesn't come across in the T/A
> patch
> > which still feels way too heavy and cumbersome to me.

> How can you expect a 5-600hp RWD tube-frame PTA car to behave anything
like
> a 2-250hp unibody FWD BTCC car? :-/

> -jde

Make that 625hp, at least at 70clr. One of the neat features of NR2003
Replay Analyzer is the ability to turn on more advanced telemetry for
replays, including hp and torque. Did a few test runs from a stop at
Coca-Cola in 3rd gear to see what the various cars' power curves looked
like. The PTA cars appear to use the same engine as the GNS cars. Output
varies depending on conditions, but for reference, at 70clr the Cup cars
make 706hp, GNS & PTA 625hp, and the CTS trucks 570hp. Haven't looked at
all of them in varying weather, but Cup cars go up to about 775hp at 40
degrees and down to about 630 at 100 degrees (2.33hp/degree; looks linear).
And then there are the restrictor plates; at 70clr with plates on at Tally,
the Cup cars only make around 370hp!

SB

by **Ruud Dingeman** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:27:57

> Track look's great - just a shame GPL drives like a nosediving pig. After
> N4,NR2002 and NR2003 I cant stand more 5 minutes in GPL before I have to
> exit and get back into a proper "car" - it just feels so very very wrong.

Well, it's a matter of preference I guess - when I last tried NR2002 the
tyre improvement was obvious, but the whole thing also felt like driving
a whale on wheels. The agility of the 67 F1 cars is still unmatched
(but the 65 mod should be more fun for those who have gotten more used
to NR2k3 by now).

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -21)

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:39:11

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:53:47 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>Yer right, PWF's Mosport is the Gold Standard, but I suspect it's still
>based on Papy's ver, which was one of their least faithful recreations
>(Mid-O being the worst...of those tracks I've actually driven; I haven't a
>clue abt. Rouen, f'rinstance).

What don't you like about GPL's Mosport? Just from the in-car vids
I've seen, the layout seems pretty faithful to the modern one except
for the jump at the end of Andretti and the huge hill going down
towards Moss.

Jason

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