rec.autos.simulators

NR2002 Questions

Patrick Shuma

NR2002 Questions

by Patrick Shuma » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:04:50

I got NR2002 2 weeks ago and have been doing a championship at 95%
difficulty with 15% race distances.  I've done 8 races so far and have some
questions about my tire wear and the ai.

1) I've noticed that using the fast setup my right front tire wears rather
quickly.  By halfway it's almost always in the yellow and at Bristol and
Martinsville it got into the red before the end of the race (at bristol it
blew out with 10 to go, during the race i scraped the wall off the corners
about 20 times, would this effect the wear?) are there any tips in regards
to setup or driving techinque that would reduce this wear without reducing
my speed?

2) After the first few laps i have noticed little if any passing between the
ai cars.  At martinsville the leaders caught lap traffic after about 25 laps
and never put a single car a lap down.  Is there any thing in the track
files that i can change to create more competiton between the ai cars?

Patrick Shumar

Brian Oste

NR2002 Questions

by Brian Oste » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:08:03

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:04:50 -0500, "Patrick Shumar"


>I got NR2002 2 weeks ago and have been doing a championship at 95%
>difficulty with 15% race distances.  I've done 8 races so far and have some
>questions about my tire wear and the ai.

>1) I've noticed that using the fast setup my right front tire wears rather
>quickly.  By halfway it's almost always in the yellow and at Bristol and
>Martinsville it got into the red before the end of the race (at bristol it
>blew out with 10 to go, during the race i scraped the wall off the corners
>about 20 times, would this effect the wear?) are there any tips in regards
>to setup or driving techinque that would reduce this wear without reducing
>my speed?

The "fast" setups in N2002 are way too tight.  You will either need to
loosen them up or download some better setups.

This has been a gripe of mine since N4.  The AI does not seem to pass
as much as real life.  However, running a 15% race you probably wont
see a whole lot of passing.  If you run a 40% or 50% race the AI will
change positions over the course, and they will lap slower cars.  Just
not as much as real life.

>Patrick Shumar


Brian Oster
John Pancoas

NR2002 Questions

by John Pancoas » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:55:36

  For that matter, it's been a a problem since N1, as well as, in some
offline practice the other day at Rockingham, I noticed the AI cars still
pit no matter what when it's time; i.e., come down and wreck non-pitting
cars, etc. in entering the pits.
  Seems to be several AI issues still surviving from even N1.

  Doesn't bother me, as offline doesn't interest me, but a bit surprising
that in all the installments, nothing's changed in several areas.

-John


> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:04:50 -0500, "Patrick Shumar"

> >I got NR2002 2 weeks ago and have been doing a championship at 95%
> >difficulty with 15% race distances.  I've done 8 races so far and have
some
> >questions about my tire wear and the ai.

> >1) I've noticed that using the fast setup my right front tire wears
rather
> >quickly.  By halfway it's almost always in the yellow and at Bristol and
> >Martinsville it got into the red before the end of the race (at bristol
it
> >blew out with 10 to go, during the race i scraped the wall off the
corners
> >about 20 times, would this effect the wear?) are there any tips in
regards
> >to setup or driving techinque that would reduce this wear without
reducing
> >my speed?

> The "fast" setups in N2002 are way too tight.  You will either need to
> loosen them up or download some better setups.

> >2) After the first few laps i have noticed little if any passing between
the
> >ai cars.  At martinsville the leaders caught lap traffic after about 25
laps
> >and never put a single car a lap down.  Is there any thing in the track
> >files that i can change to create more competiton between the ai cars?

> This has been a gripe of mine since N4.  The AI does not seem to pass
> as much as real life.  However, running a 15% race you probably wont
> see a whole lot of passing.  If you run a 40% or 50% race the AI will
> change positions over the course, and they will lap slower cars.  Just
> not as much as real life.

> >Patrick Shumar

> Brian Oster

John DiFoo

NR2002 Questions

by John DiFoo » Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:00:42


>   For that matter, it's been a a problem since N1, as well as, in some
> offline practice the other day at Rockingham, I noticed the AI cars still
> pit no matter what when it's time; i.e., come down and wreck non-pitting
> cars, etc. in entering the pits.
>   Seems to be several AI issues still surviving from even N1.

>   Doesn't bother me, as offline doesn't interest me, but a bit surprising
> that in all the installments, nothing's changed in several areas.

     They do need to overhaul the AI; such an effort is longggg overdue.
The problem is the AI doesn't try to pass when it can, and tries to pass when
it
can't.  I find at the plate tracks that if I am 2nd in line in the draft my
group can
run away from the competition because I will stick behind the leader all the
way around and am able to 'manipulate' the third car into staying behind me
(I have found that if I am low coming out onto the straights that he will stay
high,
then I can drift right up there and then we are running in a train).  Meanwhile

behind me the other AI cars are swirling around in a nondrafting mob, and are
quickly left in our dust.

    John DiFool

--
========================================================
 Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot most of the time,  which
produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet.   He also ate very little,
which made him rather frail and with his odd diet, he suffered from bad
breath. This made him....what?  A super callused fragile mystic hexed by
halitosis.
========================================================

Dave Henri

NR2002 Questions

by Dave Henri » Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:40:19

"John DiFool"
(snip)
  Sounds like they used an F1 driver for the AI.....
dave (ducking) henrie
lol
:)
<vbfg>

Brian Oste

NR2002 Questions

by Brian Oste » Sat, 16 Mar 2002 02:02:11

I could probably write a 1000 line post with all the AI quirks I've
found in N4/N2002 but the top things that need to be addressed imo
are:

1) AI wrecking entering the pits.  (its better than n4 but still a
problem)

2) AI NOT wrecking themselves at the 1.0+ mile tracks. (again, better
than n4 where there were absolutly zero cautions by the AI.  I hate
making nothing but green flag pits stops).

Do to these two things, pit strategy becomes very simple.  If you pit
before the AI, they will wreck themselves when they pit and put you a
lap down.  If you let the AI pit first, they will wreck themselves
half the time and put you a lap up on the field.  So, you ALWAYS stay
out until the last AI car pits.  I want to see cautions in the middle
of green flag runs, I want to see a single AI car loose it and cause a
caution (and not just because their engine blew up).  Maybe a few more
debris cautions thrown in (say 1 or 2 for a 50% - 100% race).

3) When there is a wreck I don't want to see the AI dogpile the
accident.  If a lead car wrecks in the first 10 laps, half the field
will be taken out.

4) AI not racing each other

5) Better drafting at the plate tracks.  The AI never wants to work
together.  The AI needs a different strategy at the plate tracks.

All in all AI is better than n4. Quite frankly when you think about
how complex it must be to make the AI realistic, it is pretty good.
But there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Brian Oster




>>   For that matter, it's been a a problem since N1, as well as, in some
>> offline practice the other day at Rockingham, I noticed the AI cars still
>> pit no matter what when it's time; i.e., come down and wreck non-pitting
>> cars, etc. in entering the pits.
>>   Seems to be several AI issues still surviving from even N1.

>>   Doesn't bother me, as offline doesn't interest me, but a bit surprising
>> that in all the installments, nothing's changed in several areas.

>     They do need to overhaul the AI; such an effort is longggg overdue.
>The problem is the AI doesn't try to pass when it can, and tries to pass when
>it
>can't.  I find at the plate tracks that if I am 2nd in line in the draft my
>group can
>run away from the competition because I will stick behind the leader all the
>way around and am able to 'manipulate' the third car into staying behind me
>(I have found that if I am low coming out onto the straights that he will stay
>high,
>then I can drift right up there and then we are running in a train).  Meanwhile

>behind me the other AI cars are swirling around in a nondrafting mob, and are
>quickly left in our dust.

>    John DiFool

Brian Oster
jason moy

NR2002 Questions

by jason moy » Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:29:52


> 2) AI NOT wrecking themselves at the 1.0+ mile tracks. (again, better
> than n4 where there were absolutly zero cautions by the AI.  I hate
> making nothing but green flag pits stops).

Weird, I haven't had this problem at all (in either N4 or 2002 for
that matter).  I'm running a 35% championship race and 4 races in
(Daytona/Rockingham/Vegas/Atlanta) I'm averaging 3-5 cautions per
race, and while I was involved in one I did not cause any of them.
Nor were they caused by erratic pit behavior.  There was a great wreck
at Daytona 10 laps from the end where Tony Stewart tried to go 3-wide
at the front of the pack on the backstretch and drifted into Terry
Labonte, sending them both hard into the wall and collecting another
4-5 cars in the ensuing melee.

I haven't found this *too* annoying yet, but it would be nice if they
looked into it.  The AI already does everything it can to brake and
swerve to avoid accidents, the only alternative I can think of to make
pileups less *** would be to go back to the unrealistic insta-brakes
that were present in N/N2/N3.

I'm pretty happy with the way they race for position, especially with
how certain drivers really turn it up a notch at the end based on
their Finishing rating.  What I would *really* like to see is lapped
cars yielding to the leaders and the leaders passing lapped cars
faster.  The problems with this are amplified at the plate tracks on
late race double-file restarts where only a handful of cars will pass
the damaged cars in the left line and everyone else will bunch up
behind them.  At shorter tracks, late race double file restarts
usually result in cars spinning everywhere since everyone bunches up
behind the slower cars instead of passing them.  This is possibly the
#3 thing I would like to see fixed in a patch, #1 being the lack of
texture compression in openGL and #2 being an option to disable wall
glue.

I agree.  Although, you could say the same thing about the real
drivers, who spend all day 2 and 3 wide.  If the AI did draft like
humans do in multiplayer races (i.e. single file) people would
complain about the lack of 2 and 3 wide racing, like nearly everyone
did up until N4.  In fact, a lot of people were using edited AI
drafting distances in N4 to make the cars bunch up even tighter and
kill the draft even further.

At 100% I'm finding Daytona/Talladega to be a reasonable challenge.
Early on I can usually work my way up from the back to the front until
I kill the tires by overdriving and push up the banking a little,
letting a 10 car train past.  I've noticed that the AI cars also
bounce from the back to the front and back again, and this is a real
life phenomenon.  Racing the AI at the plate tracks is harder than
racing most humans, and you don't have to worry about people who
haven't learned how to check up or try to pass you low when they can't
hold a line.

Definitely.  It's getting there little by little though, and starting
with the final patch for N4 it has been miles above anything we've had
in a NASCAR game.

Jason

Eldre

NR2002 Questions

by Eldre » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:53:00



>2) After the first few laps i have noticed little if any passing between the
>ai cars.  At martinsville the leaders caught lap traffic after about 25 laps
>and never put a single car a lap down.  Is there any thing in the track
>files that i can change to create more competiton between the ai cars?

That surprises me.  I've run at 70%, and the AI laps cars just fine...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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