rec.autos.simulators

by **Mike Buckle** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

aaarrrggghhhhh! FRUSTRATION! Last night promised to be an excellent
night on VROC, I joined a FULL grid at the Glen (about 10:30 GMT) and
qualified about 7th.
Got a good start, missed the inevitable pileup but then got tangled with
a Ferrari who hit the bales on turn 2. Recovered quickly and then got
into the swing of things but within 10 laps or so the leaders started
coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching
up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not
moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people
were getting frustrated. The problem seemed to be that GPL doesn't blue
flag these guys, indeed I caught one at one corner and the marshall
waved a white flag at me!!
Is this a problem with GPL? will it be fixed in 1.1? it spoilt an up til
then excellent race :(

It was then further spoilt by a very fast and aggressive Ferrari driver
who when recovering from spins and charging through the field forced me
off the track once and then a second time actually knocked me off, an
apology would have been nice :(
I hope he was just having a bad day.

Still ***y good fun though
--
Mike Buckley
Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd
Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208

WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

by **ph..** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

In GPL, you only see flags that are directed at you.

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:22:03 +0000, Mike Buckley

>aaarrrggghhhhh! FRUSTRATION! Last night promised to be an excellent
>night on VROC, I joined a FULL grid at the Glen (about 10:30 GMT) and
>qualified about 7th.
>Got a good start, missed the inevitable pileup but then got tangled with
>a Ferrari who hit the bales on turn 2. Recovered quickly and then got
>into the swing of things but within 10 laps or so the leaders started
>coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching
>up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not
>moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people
>were getting frustrated. The problem seemed to be that GPL doesn't blue
>flag these guys, indeed I caught one at one corner and the marshall
>waved a white flag at me!!
>Is this a problem with GPL? will it be fixed in 1.1? it spoilt an up til
>then excellent race :(

>It was then further spoilt by a very fast and aggressive Ferrari driver
>who when recovering from spins and charging through the field forced me
>off the track once and then a second time actually knocked me off, an
>apology would have been nice :(
>I hope he was just having a bad day.

>Still ***y good fun though

by **David Er** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Ahhh ,chill! What you see isn't the whole story. I was at the same race
starting around 10th and watched all the hot shoes wrecking in front of me.
I ended up 5th or so about midway when the biggest afterrace complainer
comes up to overtake me for position. Guess he expects everyone to recognize
his god like driving ability and move out of his way even when its for
position.No blue flag when its for position. After watching him in mirrors
for 3 corners it was obvious that he was going to put us both off so I moved
over. This was the only time he passed me. OTOH when the leader came
throughthe blue flag waved and I got out of his way on the next straight.
The leader did it with style and speed.
This post race whining about backmarkers is just a bunch of excuse
making by people that have figured out training but haven't figured out
racing. Any time you join a full race at a short track like Watglen on an
open server you are going to have to deal with backmarkers. The truly fast
guys know this and use it. The wannabees bolster their ego afterwards by
blaming others. If you want a nice safe unfrustrateing experience then find
a dozen others that you like to race with and start a league.
Email me if you want the replay
David Erb (one of a couple of blue cars with gold helmuts)

>aaarrrggghhhhh! FRUSTRATION! Last night promised to be an excellent
>night on VROC, I joined a FULL grid at the Glen (about 10:30 GMT) and
>qualified about 7th.
>Got a good start, missed the inevitable pileup but then got tangled with
>a Ferrari who hit the bales on turn 2. Recovered quickly and then got
>into the swing of things but within 10 laps or so the leaders started
>coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching
>up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not
>moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people
>were getting frustrated. The problem seemed to be that GPL doesn't blue
>flag these guys, indeed I caught one at one corner and the marshall
>waved a white flag at me!!
>Is this a problem with GPL? will it be fixed in 1.1? it spoilt an up til
>then excellent race :(

>It was then further spoilt by a very fast and aggressive Ferrari driver
>who when recovering from spins and charging through the field forced me
>off the track once and then a second time actually knocked me off, an
>apology would have been nice :(
>I hope he was just having a bad day.

>Still ***y good fun though
>--
>Mike Buckley
>Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd
>Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208

>WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

by **Mike Buckle** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

oooooooohhhhhhhhh, I didn't know that, but surely if they were indeed
getting the blue flag there was less reason to race with me?? Sorry if
I've offended anyone here I guess it was a bit of a shock to me having
to cope with backmarkers - normally its the leaders lapping ME

guess the practise must be paying off! :)
--
Mike Buckley
Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd
Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208

WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

by **Mike Buckle** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Sounds like the same guy
I thought about moving over but decided anyone lapping in those times
was pretty competent and wouldn't resort to bumping me, guess I'll just
have to mark it down to experience

:)

I don't wholeheartedly agree with this, I admit that I lack experience
overtaking backmarkers but this doesn't excuse those that race with cars
trying to lap them

Great - find someone in the UK with ADSL (hurry up PJ and BT!) and I
will, latency to some European races and others is variable :(

oops - that would mean it was you I hit when bounced off a Ferrari on
turn 2 on the first lap!

--
Mike Buckley
Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd
Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208

WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

by **Daisy Du** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:49:16 +0000, Mike Buckley

>> This post race whining about backmarkers is just a bunch of excuse
>>making by people that have figured out training but haven't figured out
>>racing.
>I don't wholeheartedly agree with this, I admit that I lack experience
>overtaking backmarkers but this doesn't excuse those that race with cars
>trying to lap them

You are both right to a degree. For the most part though , if
someone is slow enough for you to lap them, then it's almost a sure
bet that they will go off while you are behind them. When people are
new to GPL they may be slow , but they are difficult to pass because
they are unpredictable and they are generally all over the place. It's
true that they should move aside , but no one wants to be Hiro
Matsushita. : ) either.

by **schwab** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

hehe... good King Hiro reference! ;-) Glad he's behind the pit wall
these days.

--Dave

> On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:49:16 +0000, Mike Buckley

> >> This post race whining about backmarkers is just a bunch of excuse
> >>making by people that have figured out training but haven't figured out
> >>racing.
> >I don't wholeheartedly agree with this, I admit that I lack experience
> >overtaking backmarkers but this doesn't excuse those that race with cars
> >trying to lap them

> You are both right to a degree. For the most part though , if
> someone is slow enough for you to lap them, then it's almost a sure
> bet that they will go off while you are behind them. When people are
> new to GPL they may be slow , but they are difficult to pass because
> they are unpredictable and they are generally all over the place. It's
> true that they should move aside , but no one wants to be Hiro
> Matsushita. : ) either.

--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

by **David Ewin** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

...

I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for
lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being
lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting
opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being
lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower
car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car
make the move.

Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the
vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers
off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the
inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly
slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at
Spa.

We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose.

Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help:

When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the
driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help
to let him by.

If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are
probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and
barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the
obvious opening that the driver in front will provide.

It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new
users page.

Any comments?

Dave Ewing

by **Jack Ramb** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Mike...

One answer for you might be the "Nail That Track" series.

The biggest advantages that NTT offers are a regular schedule of quality
events, top-notch connections, superb fields, and the absence of
irresponsible, discourteous drivers.

To get a feel for the quality of the NTT events, do a search on "Nail That
Track" or "NTT" in RAS, or take a look at the "News" section of The APEX
(http://gpl.gamestats.com/ ).

In addition, participation in NTT events *doesn't* require the use of VROC,
although our races are available via VROC's Password Room. So if you're an
Internet Explorer user, we have the online racing answer for you!

When you register for a NTT event you receive an NTT server IP address and
password, allowing you to make a direct connection from your GPL Multiplayer
screen, avoiding the overhead of Netscape or any other program.

Check out the RAS post entitled "'Nail That Track' Race Registration
Procedure" for a schedule of upcoming NTT events and details on how to
register for events.

Hope to see you at the track!

Jack Rambo

by **Daisy Du** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:01:24 -0700, David Ewing

>When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the
>driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help
>to let him by.

>If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are
>probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and
>barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the
>obvious opening that the driver in front will provide.

>It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new
>users page.

I typically wait until a straight , move off line and raise my arm
only slowing slightly. That being said , I've seen drivers do this and
then get a tire on the grass. The car gets out of shape ,comes back on
the track and then unintentionally crashes me when I'm trying to get
around.
Maybe some of the hosting regulars ( what do ya think Jack?) can help
work this out. They observe a lot of the races and may have a better
idea of what works.

by **Michael Barlo** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Maybe you should consider this before you try to implement your rules on
us. GO JOIN A RACING LEAGUE! At least in your racing league you would be
able to tell everyone what to do.

It is not up to the driver being passed to make sure there will be room
for the pass till after the passing car makes it clear that they are going
to pass by actually doing it. Even if you're doing 200mph and the slower
car is doing 30. it's your mistake if you end up hitting him. You are the
one that's is to be looking where you are going. On the other hand, the
idiot doing 30 shouldn't be there anyhow ;-)

For both the passer and passee, always remember that...

the other guy *WILL* make the dumbest move and you have to prepare for
it.

if you think of it that way there will never be any reason to try to
implement your rules on us.

> ...
> > leaders started
> > coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching
> > up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not
> > moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people
> > were getting frustrated.

> I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for
> lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being
> lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting
> opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being
> lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower
> car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car
> make the move.

> Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the
> vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers
> off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the
> inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly
> slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at
> Spa.

> We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose.

> Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help:

> When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the
> driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help
> to let him by.

> If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are
> probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and
> barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the
> obvious opening that the driver in front will provide.

> It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new
> users page.

> Any comments?

> Dave Ewing

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
MikeBa on the TEN network.
Member of R.O.R. 1999
http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

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http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html

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by **Scott Sanfor** » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00

In my opinion a lapper should not slow until the faster car has pulled along
side. In the Papy Cup races we have had several accidents where a
backmarker will slow unexpectedly in front of a fast car taking them both
out of the race. IMO the correct behavior for a backmarker is to hold a
steady line and speed and let the fast car make a move to pass. BTW it is
very hard to see those arms in a race.

Scott Sanford
Papyrus

>...
>> leaders started
>> coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching
>> up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not
>> moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people
>> were getting frustrated.

>I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for
>lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being
>lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting
>opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being
>lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower
>car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car
>make the move.

>Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the
>vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers
>off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the
>inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly
>slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at
>Spa.

>We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose.

>Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help:

>When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the
>driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help
>to let him by.

>If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are
>probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and
>barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the
>obvious opening that the driver in front will provide.

>It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new
>users page.

>Any comments?

>Dave Ewing

by **chog..** » Sun, 14 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Wow another papy employee:)Just wanna say that I always seem to
notice the AI cars putting their hand up.

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:22:17 -0500, "Scott Sanford"

>In my opinion a lapper should not slow until the faster car has pulled along
>side. In the Papy Cup races we have had several accidents where a
>backmarker will slow unexpectedly in front of a fast car taking them both
>out of the race. IMO the correct behavior for a backmarker is to hold a
>steady line and speed and let the fast car make a move to pass. BTW it is
>very hard to see those arms in a race.

>Scott Sanford
>Papyrus

>>...
>>> leaders started
>>> coming across back markers, it was obvious from the way I was catching
>>> up to them and from a few chat comments that the backmarkers were not
>>> moving out of the way, and when I caught them I could see why people
>>> were getting frustrated.

>>I think we need a more clearly defined code of driver conduct for
>>lapping a car in online racing. Everyone agrees that the driver being
>>lapped should let the following car by, but I have read many conflicting
>>opinions of how this should be done. Some folks say that the car being
>>lapped should pull off the line and slow - others say that the slower
>>car should stay on the racing line and slow down, letting the faster car
>>make the move.

>>Both scenarios have their problems, which are only compounded by the
>>vagaries of online racing (i.e., warping). If the car in front veers
>>off the line unexpectedly as the car behind decides to pass on the
>>inside, an accident results. Similarly, if the car in front suddenly
>>slows, you get the situation like Coulthard and Schumacher last year at
>>Spa.

>>We need to reach some consensus on which method to choose.

>>Either way - here are a couple of suggestions that might help:

>>When you see the blue flag, it is for you. Raise your hand to let the
>>driver behind know that you are aware he is there and that you will help
>>to let him by.

>>If you are doing the passing, for God's sake, do it carefully. You are
>>probably a better driver, so there is no excuse for you to just try and
>>barge through ruining both of your races. Be patient and wait for the
>>obvious opening that the driver in front will provide.

>>It would be great if we could iron this out and put it on the VROC new
>>users page.

>>Any comments?

>>Dave Ewing

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