rec.autos.simulators

Furthermore, who cares if EA *does* distribute a whole wack of 3dfx
games? All the more reason to buy 3dfx - almost every gamer is going
to want to play at least one of them,

BTW, can you run OpenGL games like Quake 2 on that Riva?

I have no interest in such benchmarks, they usually bear very very
little resemblance to running real software.

Joe

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

<snippage>

<again>

Randy, I currently own an STB LS128 for 2D and a Monster for 3D, do you
know how well the Velocity does 2D in comparison to the LS?

I saw the Vel at Best Buy and was thinking about maybe getting it and a
VooDoo2 when they are released, would this be a good combo?

Trev

- Mike.

====================================================
 Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
 I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

how well the Velocity does 2D in comparison to the LS? >>

There are benchmarks for the 2d performance of this board on
www.gamecenter.com, www.gamespot.com, and on a web site called "Final Reality",
which makes a really cool benchmark program and evaluates each capability of
the product, including 2D.  You might find what you're looking for there.  I
think its plenty fast, but I don't have your LS to compare it to.

VooDoo2 when they are released, would this be a good combo?
 >>

I would think so, but it depends upon a few things.  First, since my
motherboard has only one AGP slot, I'd have the Riva in the AGP slot and the
Voodoo 2 in the PCI slot hooked up to the VGA Feature connector of the Riva.
If Voodoo 2 comes out and is AGP only, this plan is screwed.  I don't think
that you can use AGP via the feature connector (I could be wrong).

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

company (like a lot of EA games, EA just distributes it. >>

Its still put out under the EA label and EA's been firmly on the 3DFX
bandwagon.  And where do you find info on LongBow 2?  EA's site of course!

anything close ot it's current level of quality or speed with any API but
Glide.>>

And Dean said they got no performance advantage from using Glide.  Do you
believe everything a vendor tells you?  Don't you think that, having invested
in Glide, the Longbow team has a reason for dissing all other API's?

All the more reason to buy 3dfx - almost every gamer is going to want to play
at least one of them, >>

I expect to see LB2 come out with Direct3D support soon.  Andretti Racing
already has it.  EA is not going to ignore the fact that, particularly through
OEM deals, huge quantities of Riva boards are coming out, and Diamond is
grabbing marketshare at the lower end of the scale with the Stealth II and of
course the Viper V330.  I really don't see EA limiting itself to 3DFX anymore,
and their most recent games are showing more and more of that.

There are openGL drivers for NT, and OpenGL stuff for Win95 is in development
and some alpha of something or another has already shipped out.  I'm not in a
big hurry for OpenGL.  I'd like it (because its pretty well known its better
than D3D), but there's not much that uses it right now and Quake 2 is not a
high priority game on my list.

resemblance to running real software.>>

In other words, "I'm not even going to look because my mind is already made
up".  Go look at the site, Joe.  you'll find that 2 of the 3D benchmarks they
run very much resemble "real software", as they are complete ***
environments, one with mech robots and the other with a Blade-runner style
cityscape.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The jury is still out on that one.  I've spent some time with it and like it,
but as I said, its too early to call.

And it runs incredibly fast and looks great in Direct3D, so why should I buy a
Voodoo?  Until an AGP Voodoo comes out, I'd be willing to put my AGP STB 128 w/
Direct3D against a PCI Voodoo running Glide.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

No. But what this tells me is that for whatever reason MS was not able
to program CPR right. I blame the programmers not the API. I believe
the other theory that CPR is so dependant on Direct3D that it would be
very tough to make a Glide port easily.

Plus, how can Rowan make a great Direct3D game out of Flying Corps
while MS apparently cannot get it together with CPR? The answer is because
Rowan used Direct3D calls which a 3dfx does well. The people programming
CPR are apparently clueless on this one. Oh well, personally I would rather
see the ramming idiotic AI fixed rather than Glide support.

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Randy, the Voodoo2 will be PCI and AGP. AGP is still an "infant" ne need to rush towards it, though you already have, no biggie..; )

Also, if you do get the "AGP" version of the V2, you prolly won't be able to do a "SLI" connection..: (

take care

Julian Data

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=======Repost begins:================================

In any case, here were my conclusions (the evaluation accounted for
142 3d accelerated titles, being 116 of these *full* games - the rest
were betas, demos, and add-ons):

Direct3d is, as expected, the leading API in the market. However, it
is not as supported as I expected (slightly more than half
of the 3d games rounded up support it - 56,3% if all titles are
considered, and 56,9% if only full titles are considered).

OpenGL is still just a matter of Quake and Quake II (with the
exception of the Bfris demo). Actually, the only other full game
that supports OpenGL is Hexen II (there are 4 Quake add-ons in the
llist). Despite GLQuake being a heck of a game, and all the promise of
so many future GPQuake-a-likes, OpenGL support still is minimal, as
far as statistics are concerned (5,6% if all titles are considered,
and 2,6% if only full titles are considered).

Therefore, native APIs are still responsible for a considerable share
of the 3d accelerated market (40,5% of the full games do
*not* run under Direct3d or OpenGL, but only under one or more native
APIs - statistic that lowers to 38,0% when the non-full titles are
considered). Which is bad news for Riva 128 owners, I suppose.

As far as native APIs go, 3dfx is the clear winner, offering native
Glide support to 43,7% of the 3d accelerated titles (46,6%, if you
only consider full titles).Among the 3dfx exclusive titles, one finds:
    - Jetfighter III
    - Apache Longbow 2
    - F/A 18 Hornet Korea
    - Extreme ***
    - Nuclear Strike
    - Archimedian Dy***
    - Uprising
    - Outlaws
    - Shadow Warrior
    - Pandemonium
    - Pandemonium 2
    - Dreams to Reality
    - Carmageddon (and Splat Pack)
    - Need for Speed 2 SE
    - Test Drive 4
    - Ignition
    - NHL 98
    - NBA Live 98
    - Incubation

Joe

You would expect Microsoft to say anything different?

Apparently you do, but onlyif the vendor is Microsoft.

Don't you think that, having invested in D3D, the MS team has a reason
for dissing all other API's?

Your expectation will NOT be met. The LB2 developers have made that
quite clear.

You keep missing the point - EA didn't make these decisions.
Independent software developers did. That's why some of their titles
have D3D, and some do not. LB2 will NOT have D3D, because it's makers
refuse to compromise on quality. They have been quite clear on this
point.

So Quake 2 is another very popular, high-end you can't run. Ouch!

BS. Creating realistic benchmarks is an EXTREMELY advanced "science".
It costs HUGE money to do benchmarks properly, and there are about
1,000 mistakes yo can make that totally invalidates "everyday"
benchmarks, especially on PC technology where each machine is so
different.

Joe

actually the Glide quote was from Looking Glass, not Andy....

-Paul

rush towards it, though you already have, no biggie..; )>>

Its not so much that I rushed it but the Dell XPSD300 comes with AGP and an AGP
STB Velocity 128.

do a "SLI" connection..: ( >>

Hm.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Well, I guess you assume the best about Glide developers and the worst about
everyone else.

program CPR right.

Microsoft did not program CPR.  Terminal Reality did.  

so dependant on Direct3D that it would be
very tough to make a Glide port easily.>>

I would suggest that if you want programming information concerning CART, you
might contact the folks at Terminal Reality, as they coded this one and are
closer to the bits & bytes than the guys at Microsoft are (unless I read things
wrong).

personally I would rather see the ramming idiotic AI fixed rather than Glide
support. >>

Again, before you presume complete incompetence by TRI, you might contact THEM.
 Right now, you're making a lot of assumptions about whats true and what's not
true.  As an engineer myself, if someone were to accuse me indirectly of being
incompetent, I'd want them to talk to me first.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

I will reply to this one after I have researched the web sites of the various
"exclusives" to see what level of DirectX/Direct3D support they are providing
or will be providing.  As an example, the developers of Longbow2 are
considering other 3D cards right now, according to their own FAQ.  That alone
should blow a hole in the notion that 3DFX is so *** that these people are
100% committed to it and are equally committed not to support anything else.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/