rec.autos.simulators

Hey guys,
Is there a certain setting in F1C that controls the amount of force felt
when hitting an object (such as a wall or other vehicle)?
And, is there a setting that controls the amount of feedback from the track
(i.e. rumble strips and such)?
I can get all the oscillation out of the wheel, but I can't seem to get any
feedback from the track.
I can feel the rumble strips with the mods (ETCC2003), but not with the
original sim.  I've copied all the settings in the mod to the original sim,
but it hasn't worked as well as in the mods.
I'm using a Momo (black) p/n 1000 series.  I've used Sphanky's settings for
the control panel and that has eliminated the oscillations but has not
rendered any feedback from the track.

--
Thanks,
Gary Beard

Are you using Logi profiler Gary and is it loaded when you start F1C?  The
forces with my Racing is greater than the Momo Force which makes me wonder
what's going on with your rig.  I also use 10% spring centering and 10%
Spring effect in F1C/mods to add to the feel.

You can also copy the player.ini [Controllers} section from ETC03save to the
other mods.

Mitch

Mitch,
I do use the profiler, but it's not always open when I run the sim.  I'll
try adjusting my spring centering and effect to 10% and see if that helps.
I did copy part of the player.ini from ETCC but I may not have copied
everything I needed, or the right section.  I'll try it again and see if
that helps.

--
Thanks,
Gary Beard

Mitch,
Oddly enough the only mod I'm not running through the profiler is the ETCC
mod...and that's the only mod that is working correctly.  I get great feel
from the rumble strips and from contact with walls and other cars.  I'm
gonna try to copy everything from the .ini file from ETCC to the original
sim as well as the DTM mod and see what happens.

--
Thanks,
Gary Beard

Mitch,
I tried once again to copy the info from the player.ini file from ETC03 and
paste it to the .ini file of the original sim, but that didn't work either.
I then went in to the profiler and deleted the entry for F1C and tried
running the sim and that didn't help (I don't have a profile for ETC03, so I
thought it might help to delete the profile for F1C).  So I built a new
profile for F1C and that didn't work.
I made sure all my settings in F1C matched my settings in ETC03 and it still
didn't want to work.
Is there an .ini file (or some other file) that contains information
relevant to the feedback of FF wheels?  Even in ETC03 I don't feel the car
get loose, which is really what I'm looking for.  Is it even possible to
feel forces such as these with a FF wheel or am I wasting my time?  I know I
should be feeling crashes into walls and rumble strips, so I know I'm not
spinning my wheels over that one (so to speak).
What setting(s) needs to be changed in order to adjust the force at which
you feel contact with the wall?  I only feel minimal effects right now, and
would like to increase it a bit?

--
Thanks again for any help,
Gary Beard

Do you by chance go through a USB hub Gary?

In the profiler under global settings i have...  Control Panel/Game
controller should be the same.

Overall effects strenght 97%
Spring effect 7%
Damper 0%
Check box to enable cetering spring
Spring strength 10%

Under Wheel axis.

Sensitivity 50%
Deadzone 0%
Range 100%

Here is my controller section of my player.ini.  First backup your
player.ini somewhere. Open your F1c/save/player_name/player.ini and select
the same section then paste the new section over it.

[ Controls ]
Keyboard Steering="0.20189"
Keyboard Throttle="0.49906"
Keyboard Brake="0.49906"
Keyboard Clutch="0.20189"
Force Feedback="0"
Mimic Steering="0" // Mimic AI or pitlane assistance with force feedback
Gear Select Button Hold="0" // Enable this option if using a gear select
device that holds down a joystick button while in a gear and releases all
buttons in neutral (such as the Act-Labs USB Shifter)
Alternate Rearlook Activation="1" // if left look and right look are both
pressed, rearlook becomes activated
VFX-3D Head Tracking="0" // Enable this option if you have a VFX-3D HMD and
you want to enable head tracking (VFX driver v. 2.6 must be installed)
HMD Pitch Exponent="1.00000" // Exponent to apply to pitch tracking.  > 1.0
makes tracking near-center slower, > 0 & < 1.0 makes tracking near-center
faster.
HMD Yaw Exponent="1.00000" // Exponent to apply to yaw tracking.  > 1.0
makes tracking near-center slower, > 0 & < 1.0 makes tracking near-center
faster.
HMD Roll Exponent="1.00000" // Exponent to apply to roll tracking.  > 1.0
makes tracking near-center slower, > 0 & < 1.0 makes tracking near-center
faster.
Options Num Controls="44" // Number of configurable controls displayed in
options
Axis [00, 00] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 X
Axis [00, 00] Sensitivity="0.45283"
Axis [00, 00] Center="0.50000" // 0.0=min, 0.5=center, 1.0=max (use to
correct centering or split-axis issues)
Axis [00, 01] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 Y
Axis [00, 01] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [00, 01] Center="1.00000"
Axis [00, 02] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 Z
Axis [00, 02] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [00, 02] Center="0.50000"
Axis [00, 03] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 RX
Axis [00, 03] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [00, 03] Center="0.50000"
Axis [00, 04] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 RY
Axis [00, 04] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [00, 04] Center="0.50000"
Axis [00, 05] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 RZ
Axis [00, 05] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [00, 05] Center="1.00000"
Axis [00, 06] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 S0
Axis [00, 06] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [00, 06] Center="0.50000"
Axis [00, 07] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 1 S1
Axis [00, 07] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [00, 07] Center="0.50000"
Axis [01, 00] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 X
Axis [01, 00] Sensitivity="0.45283"
Axis [01, 00] Center="0.50000" // 0.0=min, 0.5=center, 1.0=max (use to
correct centering or split-axis issues)
Axis [01, 01] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 Y
Axis [01, 01] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [01, 01] Center="0.50000"
Axis [01, 02] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 Z
Axis [01, 02] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [01, 02] Center="1.00000"
Axis [01, 03] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 RX
Axis [01, 03] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [01, 03] Center="1.00000"
Axis [01, 04] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 RY
Axis [01, 04] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [01, 04] Center="0.50000"
Axis [01, 05] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 RZ
Axis [01, 05] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [01, 05] Center="0.50000"
Axis [01, 06] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 S0
Axis [01, 06] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [01, 06] Center="0.50000"
Axis [01, 07] Dead Zone="0.00000" // Controller 2 S1
Axis [01, 07] Sensitivity="0.50000"
Axis [01, 07] Center="0.50000"
Control - Accelerate="(1, 4)"
Control - Brake="(1, 12)"
Control - Steer Left="(1, 2)"
Control - Steer Right="(1, 1)"
Control - Shift Up="(1, 14)"
Control - Shift Down="(1, 13)"
Control - Neutral="(0, 89)"
Control - Reverse Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - First Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - Second Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - Third Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - Fourth Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - Fifth Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - Sixth Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - Seventh Gear="(0, 89)"
Control - Clutch In="(0, 16)"
Control - Display Mode="(1, 18)"
Control - Pit Request="(0, 31)"
Control - Pit Menu Up="(0, 200)"
Control - Pit Menu Down="(0, 208)"
Control - Pit Menu Inc="(0, 205)"
Control - Pit Menu Dec="(0, 203)"
Control - TCOverride="(0, 24)"
Control - Launch Control="(0, 57)"
Control - Speed Limiter="(1, 20)"
Control - Bias Forward="(1, 17)"
Control - Bias Rearward="(1, 19)"
Control - Look Left="(1, 15)"
Control - Look Right="(1, 16)"
Control - Rear Look="(1, 35)"
Control - Instant Replay="(0, 19)"
Control - Pause="(0, 25)"
Control - Restart Race="(0, 21)"
Control - Zero HMD="(0, 89)"
Control - Display Vehicle Labels="(0, 15)"
Control - Ignition="(0, 89)"
Control - Starter="(0, 89)"
Control - Horn="(0, 157)"
Control - Headlights="(0, 89)"
Control - Handbrake="(0, 89)"
Control - Look Up="(0, 89)"
Control - Look Down="(0, 89)"
Control - Look Roll Left="(0, 89)"
Control - Look Roll Right="(0, 89)"
FFB Device Type="1" // Type of FFB controller: 0=none 1=wheel,
2=stick/custom, 3=rumble pad.
FFB Effects Level="4" // Number of FFB effects to use: 0=No Effects, 1=Low,
2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom.
FFB Gain="1.00000" // Strength of Force Feedback effects.  Range 0.0 to 1.0.
FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis,
1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake
effects on steering axis.
FFB steer vibe freq mult="0.20000" // Controls frequency of steering
vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.03500" // Magnitude of steering vibration
at 0mph (reference point).
FFB steer vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a
function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,
1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB steer force average weight="0.60000" // How much weight is given to new
steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will
smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency.
FFB steer force exponent="0.80000" // Steering force output "sensitivity".
Range 0.0 to infinity.  0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 =
lower sensitivity.
FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if
controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB steer force output max="1.80000" // Maximum force output of steering
force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4
to 0.9.  How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering
force.
FFB steer update thresh="0.01500" // Amount of change required to update
steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more
frequently = lower frame rate.
FFB steer friction coefficient="0.17500" // Coefficient to use for steering
friction.  Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer friction saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for
steering friction.  Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer damper coefficient="0.17500" // Coefficient to use for steering
damper.  Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for
steering damper.  Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.17000" // Scales actual engine frequency to
force FFB vibration frequency.  Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50
FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of engine vibration
at 0rpm (reference point).
FFB throttle vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a
function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude).
FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,
1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.08000" // Amount of change required to
update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.90000" // Scales actual brake rotational
frequency to force feedback vibration frequency.
FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.10000" // Magnitude of brake vibration at
0mph (reference point).
FFB brake vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a
function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude).
FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,
1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.05000" // Amount of change required to
update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0)
FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.35000" // How strong the rumble strip rumble
is.  Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.
FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.60000" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0
= one rumble per wheel rev.
FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,
1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB rumble strip pull factor="-1.50000" // How strongly wheel pulls
right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.
FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.07500" // Amount of change required to
update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB jolt magnitude="1.00000" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls)
are.  Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.
FFB Joy[00] Axis[00] Spring Saturation Pos="1.00000" // DirectInput
Saturation to use for spring
FFB Joy[00] Axis[00] Spring Coefficient Pos="0.00000" // DirectInput
Coefficient to use for spring
FFB Joy[00] Axis[00] Spring Saturation Neg="1.00000" // DirectInput
Saturation to use for spring
FFB Joy[00] Axis[00] Spring Coefficient Neg="0.00000" // DirectInput
Coefficient to use for spring
FFB Joy[00] Axis[01] Spring Saturation Pos="0.00000" // DirectInput
Saturation to use for spring
FFB Joy[00] Axis[01] Spring Coefficient Pos="0.00000" ...

read more »

Mitch,
It IS a USB wheel...is that a bad thing?  It's not going through a USB hub
so the bandwidth shouldn't be an issue if that is where you were headed.
In the profiler I have the same settings under the wheel axis as you and
just minimal differences in the global settings.  I'll set them as you have
them and make sure they match the control panel and see if that helps.

--
Thanks again,
Gary Beard

Yea thats where I was headed :-)

If you use those wheel settings and my player.ini controller section then we
should have the same feel.  Check your controller settings again after you
change the ini and be sure FF is enabled and set to wheel and is -100.  Also
re-map any custom keys.  Be aware a few of the mod makers arent able to
diferentiate between a game keystroke and a chat keystroke so you get weird
anomalies in chat if you have keys mapped to that particular key.

Mitch

Mitch,
I tried your settings and have some twitching in the wheel, but no feedback
from the road or contact with the walls.  I'll go back and try to dial that
twitchiness out of the wheel (it just sort of jerks to the right or left
occasionally).
I do get feedback from the ETC03 mod for the sim, but not in F1C.  So, I
don't think it's a hardware problem.  I've made certain that all the
settings within F1C are set the same as in ETC03 but I don't get the same
feedback (I feel the rumble strips in ETC03 but not in F1C, and I feel wall
contact in ETC03 but not in F1C).
I have copied the ini from the mod to the original sim and that didn't help.
I copied someone else's ini file to F1C and that didn't work.  I don't
believe I copied your ini file yet...I'll try that tonight.
I have not tried remapping the keys, which I'll do this evening as well!

--
Thanks again for all your input Mitch,
Gary Beard

.

   So what you are saying is SOMETHING in the ETCC mod is providing more FF
than the basic mod.  AND, since you have tried cutting and pasting, it's
something not found in the .plr file.   So we have to find out what the
ETCC boys have done to modify this.  I'd suggest a trip to their
homepage/website or forum(racesimcentral I would suppose)
dave henrie

Dave,
Thanks for the post!  You're exactly right.  I don't think it's in the plr
file.  I may be overlooking a setting somewhere though.  I can't imagine
nobody has heard of this before, so I doubt the ETCC guys have done anything
special.
The problem really lies in the fact that I'm not feeling the rumble strips
or walls in F1C.  I'm sure most, if not everybody using a Momo (black) are
feeling these in F1C...but I'm not.  So, therefore I don't think it's
something in ETCC that's not in F1C, but rather probably a setting I'm
missing somewhere (which is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of).
Do we know ALL the settings that effect the amount of feedback felt through
the wheel?  If so, what are they?  I've adjusted everything I can find in
the profiler, control panel, in the sim and in the .ini file.  Are there any
other places I need to look?
One bonus question...I have a track, Watkins Glen with the boot.  Is this
track for F1C?  It appears to be a GPL track.  Do I have to convert the
track, or will it work if I just put it in a Watkins Glen folder?

--
Thanks,
Gary Beard

   look in the watkins glenn zip.  Is the biggest file a .dat file or .mas
file.  .dat is Papyrus(GPL/Nr2k2).  .mas is for ISI(F1c).
if it's a .mas track, then unzip it to f1c\seasondata\circuits.  
Some tracks have installers, some need to be unzipped or unrarred.

ps...quick question about your controller settings.  Is the FF slider in
F1c set to a NEGATIVE value?  Should be for all the mods.  So something
like -66% or -90%(whatever values you prefer)

dave henrie

Dave,
I do have the controller setting in F1C in the negative, usually
around -75%.
The Watkins Glen track is a .dat file I believe which is what made me
believe it was a GPL track.  Is this track available for F1C?  Wait a
minute.  I think I have the track in both .dat AND .mas format.  The .mas
track is in a folder called 1999_Glen.  I'll mess around with that one and
see if I can get it to work.
One last thing...is there an .ini file in F1C?  I thought that was what I
was changing, but now I just changed a .plr file.  Was I mistaken before and
just thought the .plr was an .ini?  Or, have I been editing two different
files?

--
Thanks yet again,
Gary Beard

  There are config.ini files that start the sim/mod.  THen there is also
a .plr file.  Which keeps your driver's settings and info.

Probably more ini files tucked around but that is the two main ones.

dave henrie