rec.autos.simulators

I have been hosting N3 races the past few days.  The first day I went
all the way and allowed 32 drivers to my server to observe performance.
I had 32 drivers at one time with Latency set at 250, and it looked as
though 70% of the field experienced warping, while a few had minor
problems. Not bad for 32 cars. I changed the latency to 200 and  it was
a little better but not what you want.  I am currently allowing 20
drivers to my server with Latency set at 200.  This has been working
very well.  I am going to adjust the allowed drivers by two until the
warps return and then back off by 2 allowed drivers.

My question is:

How should I adjust the latency as I increase allowed drivers to my
server?

Thanks
Rick Sweeney

I ran races on your server one night and I found that it was pretty smooth.
I showed lat's between .15-.22 with a couple of drops every few seconds.  I
have found that mostly my pings are between 180 - 250 at the race select
screen, and cant connect to most servers because the LPB'S set there cap
just below my ping >=[  , So if you set your lat cap at lower than you have
had it, then guys like me won't be able to connect.  :(  I'll have to wait
till I can get cable.

I run a USR 56k v90 with my bps capped at 28, low buffers, no error control,
hardware flow control, and my dun is tweaked with recommended settings used
from PPP-Boost.  I think that I am set as good as I can get with an ISA 56k
modem, or am I?

MY question is:
do I use the same settings I use to enjoy good lat's in VROC? or is there
better settings for N3 on WON?

Hi kenny,

The same adjustments you have already made to your DUN and modem etc.
will work just as well for N3 as they do for GPL.

Regarding your comments about hosts adjusting the latency capping too
low for you,  try living in Australia.  :(
Our latency's to overseas hosts are usually in the order of 450 to 550
ms.  which is fine (perfect) for GPL, so if Nascar3 can't handle
latency figures of up to 550 ms,  then i guess it will stop a lot of us
international sim drivers, racing between countries..
There is a lot of mis-understanding about what is a reasonable latency
figure to work with, unfortunately too many hosts believe the hype
about having to have a latency of 150 to 300 to have good racing.
That is a false belief in GPL, because pings of up to 550 can be
excellent and warp free in F1, and even be higher in F2 & F3, so i hope
it will be the same for N3 as well, as i would like to race N3 on-line
to the USA, if i can find a host that will allow me to. !!!

For anyone else reading this thread, don't bother telling me that
because Nascars run closer to each other than the GPL cars do, that
lower latency figures are a higher priority in N3, because i also  run
in a USA based F3, F2 & F1 league and in F3 and F2, we often race with
only inches seperating us for whole races, with no touching and very
little warping, and that is at pings of up to 550 or worse, F1 is a
little less forgiving, but 550's in F1 can still be very good, if the
quality of the clients connection is good.

Cheers,
Ron

I hosted a Dega last night with my Cable, and it went fantastic.  There were
no reports of warping at all.

I believe I had around 18 drivers at the start.

I did join some races that were horrible, though.

-Larry

If that is the case Mike, then all i can say is N3 has not been
designed with the international on-line sim racing community in mind..
I don't know whether you are part of the programming team or not, as i
don't have N3 as yet, because it is still not available in Australia,
but i do know that GPL works very well on an international on-line
basis, with many leagues having members from all around the globe and
it does an excellent job of handling medium to high latency figures..
(450 to 650 ms)
If you are part of the programming team for N3, then i guess what you
say could be true, but personally, i will reserve judgment on N3's
on-line capabilities with latency figures of up to 550 ms, untill i try
it for myself, as i was told exactly the same thing with GPL, i have
since proven that theory false as well.!!
A lot is also dependant on quality and DUN setup..
If what you say is true about needing low latency in N3, then i for one
won't bother with it, nor will a lot of other potential overseas
customers who at present all enjoy great (almost warp free) races in
GPL with latency figures of up to 550 or higher..
Seems like a major backward step in progressing the fun and enjoyment
of the global on-line racing community, if what you say about latency
requirments is correct.!!
Like i said, i don't believe you.....  
I would find it very hard to believe that Papy would take such a
backward step in on-line play,  still it remains to be seen..  
See you on-line soon...   (with my 450 to 550 latency)    :-)
Cheers,
Ron

Comparing GPL to N3 really isn't very usefull.

Driving GPL (road courses) we are on and off the gas / brake much more often
than in NASCAR3.  The result is less side by side racing for an extended
period of time.  Same for nose to tail..   In GPL we leave more room between
cars and still consider it close racing.  The comprimise Papyrus was able to
make with GPL is a lower packet rate and more "smoothing" for the time
inbetween.  Since the packet rate is reduced, larger latency is "hidden".
In NASCAR3 however we need a higher packet rate since there is less room for
"smoothing errors".  The higher packet rate requires lower latency.

It's possible to race with "horrible" latency, but either the results are
going to be horrible, or you effectively end up racing against the AI
drivers 99% of the time.

Hi Mike,
I tend to disagree with your comments in this post regarding on-line
play and latency issues.
I guess i should state that i live in Australia and run in a USA based
league for GPL and i have recently joined their Nascar branch as
well...
I also only use a 56k analogue modem, which i usually have capped at
26400 bps for my on-line DUN connection..

Regarding GPL,  some of us do race very close, wheel to wheel and nose
to tail in GPL league races, especially in the F2 & F3 classes, but
even in the F1 classes in GPL i have had many league races where only
inches have seperated us for entire races, with absolutely no evidence
of warping or spatial disorientation at all..
My pings to the USA vary anywhere in the order of 400 to 600 ms and i
have had perfect wheel to wheel racing in GPL with those ping levels..

Regarding N3, i have only recently started testing the on-line issues
with N3 from Australia to USA, over the last two days.
I have so far been in about a dozen races, with my lowest ping in the
low 400ms range and my highest ping at a horrible 1.2 seconds.  :)
The first race i did in N3 was at Taladega with a ADSL host and i had a
ping of 425ms.
The racing was perfect, with no warping at all, in fact one of the
other clients was bump drafting with me, to see how accurate a ping
like mine could be in close quarters racing..
I think we were all surprised by the results.!!
We then tried Michigan, with identical results, though my ping was
slightly worse at Michigan, about 475ms from memory.
Last night i was in a 17 client race at Dega with a ping of 450ms and
four of us run in a train for most of the race, with no more than a
couple of inches seperating us for the greater part of the race.
After the race, i told the guys i was running close to,  that i lived
in Australia and had a ping of 450ms, and they didn't believe me..
They all said i wasn't warping, even slightly, and figured that i must
have been a local, on cable...   (how wrong they were)   <G>
Since then i have run quite a few test races on hosts that didn't have
their latency caps set at ridiculously low levels (it is hard to find a
host that allows overseas clients to join their races, eg: pings up to
450 or so) and there was only one race i ended up disconnecting myself
from, due to slight warping, that was the 1.2 second latency one.   :))
The rest were all perfect, with races run at Bristol, IMS, Texas and
Watkins Glen.
In none of those races were my pings under 400ms, and i had a lot
better and warp free connection than quite a few of the locals to the
host.

I will be doing more testing over the next week or so, and i will post
my results and findings again, after i do more testing etc., but
so-far, N3 does look as promising as GPL for the medium latency client,
providing we can still find a host that will let us join their races.  
<G>
I think hosts and clients should be made aware of the truth, in regards
to latency and connection issues for on-line play.
I will be the first to agree, that the lower the latency the better,
but don't discount the client that has a medium latency figure with a
good error free as possible connection..
Cheers,
Ron