rec.autos.simulators

This is an idea whose time has DEFINITELY come.  Is ANYBODY paying
attention???

-- JB

-- JB

SIERRA AND PAPYRUS PRODUCE GAMES BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MAKE MONEY.

They have to make a relatively large profit on the games/sims they sell
or else they lose their shirt, just like every other business
establishment in the world.  And because of this simple fact, they know
NASCAR, a sport with an incredible fan base in the United States and a
much smaller, but sizable, fanbase in Europe, will sell far more copies
than some obscure F1 sim.

Maybe this explanation will put it better:

Joe Gamer is perusing the game aisles at CompUSA when he comes to the
racing section.  Assuming he hasn't read any read any reviews about
them, What is his reaction to these two titles?

NASCAR Racing 3: "Whoa cool! NASCAR!  I love to watch NASCAR and I'd
love to play it!  I'm gonna pick this one up!

Formula 1 1975: "Huh?  What kind of thing is this?  1975?  I wasn't even
born then.  And what's Formula 1 anyway?"

Good day.  Feel free to flame away.

Sam

Now, just to keep this from becoming TOO off-topic (this IS
rec.autos.SIMULATORS, after all), I do admit that open-wheel sims can be
very annoying in that it's difficult to have such delicate cars in a
simulated environment, where you are deprived of many important sensory
inputs and left with only a vague awareness of where the four corners (and
open wheels) are with respect to you.

In a sim environment, it's much easier to get by in a simulated environment
that's somewhat forgiving of bumping and rubbing -- which is where sims like
NASCAR and SCGT really shine.  No matter how rewarding a good lap is in GPL,
I still find that it brings me very little relaxation -- just stress.  Given
the opportunity to do a little strategic rubbing and bumping, I find I can
blow off a lot of stress -- which is VERY relaxing.  AND rewarding. <G>

I'm just glad we have such a diversity of games to choose from.  Despite the
availability of titles like GPL and the myriad of F1 sims on the market now,
there IS a distinct lack of open-wheel sims that are NOT F1-related.  CART
and IRL fans are pretty much left out in the cold, so while the average
NASCAR fan may felt lost in a sea of F1 wheels and wings, the IRL and CART
fans are just simply lost AND forgotten.

Keep bringing the NASCAR sims on -- AND the F1 sims, and Le Mans, etc., but
let's all pray that they DON'T forget about the IRL and CART fans along the
way.

-- JB

CART Sim Features Sheet

Important ones denoted with *                                          

All tracks*                                            
Good but easy to use Track Editor                                      

All cars (none fictional)*                                              
Fantasy Tracks 8^)                                              
GPL Physics or N3 if not GPL*                                          
All teams (tobacco and *** if possible)*                            

native RENDITION support***                                            
drafting*                                              
3d***pits*                                            
3d Physics engine that simulates true CART handling*                    

Resolutions like 800x600 and 1024x768*                                  

Excellent car damage model so that no two crashes look alike*          

Realistic flip effects,like GPL and not Andretti Racing (boo)
Comprehensive car setups, including springs, shocks, camber, weight  jacker on
ovals, static ride height, dampers, rebounds, bump stops, etc.  *      

Realistic effects like bottoming out*                                  
Realistic debris that you can run over and damage your car on          

Random tire blowouts*                                  
Oil and other fluids from engine failures*                              

Fire (highly unlikely this will be allowed by CART)*                    

Realistic wall types and wall effects (Armco barriers do more damage than
concrete, tire walls do less damage than concrete, tire walls          

cause car to get airborne and flip more than concrete and armcos, etc.)*

Realistic gravel trap effects (Come on, you know you wanna do an Andretti at
Mid-Ohio, admit it...)*                                
Improved Paintkit*                                      
realistic sounds actually digitally recorded*                          

animated pit stops*                                    
area in pit road that can be drivin off into the infield to get to
victory lane..or garage*                                        
realistic***pit that has hand on wheel like GPL*                      

better frame rates/3d acceleration/1024x768 resolution*        

better engine, way more realistic damage to the car, the way the damage is
spread across the track in real life...fliping catchin air on other
tires*                                          
better smoke,skid marks and racing groove*,                            

possible damage of the catch fencing*                                  

RED FLAGS*                                              
animated workers on the track after a wreck...and if possible
ambulances or REAL tow-trucks*                                          
marks on the walls after a hit, animated flagmen*                      

more options to change on the car in garage                            

full field of cars*                                            
all the current tracks ( if possible...Indianapolis, since it rightfully is
CART's) *                                      
realistic lookin part-time road courses like with the closed off streets and
stuff*                                          
fire,fuel and oil leaks, (causin slippery race track)*                  

possible damage to the pit wall..*                                      

animated OPPONENT pit stops*                                            
more realistic AI cars*                                        
weather changes like durin the race, rain, wind, etc*                  

possible use of rain tires, and racing in the rain (regardless of if there was
rain that season or not*)

The problem is that this stuff works the other way too you see....

Imagine Bob Gamer who lives in London or Franz Gamer in Munich or Pierre
Gamer in Paris, walking up to the racing section in at the computer shop....

Do you think they'll pick NASCAR 3 ??

I'll give 100:1 that 95% or more will pick a Formula 1 sim or a CART sim.
Why?  Both Formula One and CART get good exposure over here...
NASCAR we (sadly) see way too little of....  like in pretty close to nill!

--
All the best,
Edwin Solheim *remove SPAM-GUARD in address to reply*
The Paddock - a legendary site....
<http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock>

Bring on ANY racing sim, if it's as good or better than GPL.

Jan.
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Speaking as a confirmed Nascar fanatic, I would buy anything Papyrus came
out with as far as racing sims go.  As proof, I laid out the bucks for
GPL thinking to myself that it might be entertaining as a 2nd sim to
Nascar2, but due to the online capability, N2 has been collecting dust on
the shelf since last October.  When N3 comes out, I'm sure GPL will be
relegated to it's originally intended spot as 2nd sim, despite it's
superior physics model.  Why?  Because here in the USA, Nascar is king.

It's understandable that Papy's euro user base is more geared towards F1,
but let's face it, that user base is much smaller. (And I'm not talking
worldwide TV audence, I'm talking about euro fans with PC's that can run
a modern racing sim.)

OTOH, this is not to say that Papy is ignoring the market because we
don't have any clue as to what they might be working on beyond N3, Nascar
Legends, and N4 (using GPL physics engine).  For all we know, Papy has an
F1 sim on their radar, but we all know how tight-lipped they are about
their future plans.

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
  http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html
Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting)
  http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html
Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2
  http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html
North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition
  http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html
Super X Philes
  http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

But another time.. who knows ? You got information, statistics about that ?
We are just all arguing about assumptions we think are true.  I still think
that the Non-American *** market is almost as big as the US one.  Did you
know that at the end of 1999 that Americans won't dominate anymore the # of
users on the Internet ? :)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Let's remember that Ratbag is not the only competitor to Papyrus <vbg>

There is Motorsims with AMA Superbike, Europress with Rally Championship,
and Geoff Crammond with GrandPrix3.  Those titles are to be took seriously,
the thing about nothing will touch GPL for at least year is probably not
true, even if one of those titles comes up as bad, or arcade-style, there
will be probably one of them superior to GPL.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Eldred

__

Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Sadly?  I only wish I lived somewhere where I didn't have to hear about NASCAR.
I don't get this sport at all.  Oval tracks and 1960's technology DO NOT make an
exciting sport.  Where's the skill?  In the pits if it's anywhere.  NASCAR
drivers make an *** amount of money for what they do, I can only hope the
guys in the pits are bringing home their fair share for they are the true
driving force behind the sport.  All this goes for the IRL too.  Indy 500, god
lord man, what a tremendous non event.

-Andrew