rec.autos.simulators

Please forgive me again for complaining but...

I love Talladega, it's one of my favorite tracks (I guess that's what
keeps me coming back for more).  I absolutely hate not being able to race
there.  The last 4 races there I have been taken out by another car.  Oh
well, that racing I guess.  But after tonight's race, I have officially
become fed up with it.  

We were under yellow and just as the green flag was about to drop, the
leader downshifts and blows his engine.  Mle insued as 2nd place and
myself collided, followed soon by all 30 of the cars behind us.  After we
all unpiled, we continued with racing.  I was still third and the last
few laps continued under caution once again.  At the finish I see that I
had gotten black flagged, I guess for passing the leader (who was out of
the race on the restart with his blown engine).  I then notice that
indeed everyone in the race was black flagged, and the entire field was
disqualified.  To make matters worse, the only way the lead car had
gotten up to first in the first place was by getting an early jump on a
previous yellow.

It is extremely frustrating not being able to complete a race there
without getting hit by someone.  I've tried nominating races for skill
level (1)-(15) to weed out the newer more inexperienced drivers, but no
one joins them.  I regrettably have go back to the (0)-(15) races and get
caught in the carnage if I want to race at Dega.

"Can't we all just get along..."

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (4)

Adding to what I wrote earlier:

Hell, for that matter no one joins these races at any tracks.  I have yet to
nominate a race that did not include (0) drivers and be able to field drivers.
 Perhaps once more people have experiences like mine they will avoid the (0)
drivers like I would like to do.  I don't mean to sound bitter, but am I the
only one consistently getting wrecked while on-line, or am I in the minority?  
It's like I have a 'Kick Me' sign taped to my rear bumper.  

BTW, I've only caused two wrecks so far.  One of those was solo, as I damaged a
wheel hitting the wall exiting the tri-oval.  The other I have publicly
acknowledged in an earlier post.  In all the others (they are now countless), I
have been just another innocent victim.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (4)

One of the probs getting drivers above (0) is that there was some kind of
a reset of skills or something. I've been testing since last September,
granted was only a 2, but was steadily improving. I was forced to change
Id's so then I got kicked down to a 1, then reset to 0 when the open beta
started. I haven't had enough time this last month to get enough races in
to build up my rating. (If I don't stop getting taken out by newbies my
rating will never come up tho)

Brad

Seems like I always get hit while on the line at
`Dega too.Only if I qaulify in the middle somewhere.
If I'm up front or in the back, most of the time all
is well. Just weave your way around the "wrecks". I'm
currently at skill level 3 now, before a 2nd last night
at `Dega. ( I only race Talledega for now, until I get
more experience with the shorter tracks.) If you're out
there nominating a (1)-(15) race, I'll join!

--Don Turcotte

Username: DonT

It's amazing how good the races can be if drivers just settle
down early and cooperate.

One BIG gripe I have is how many drivers want the slower cars
to run high at Talladega. This makes no sense at all. Cars
entering or leaving the pits should stay low. A car that is
going slow may be preparing to pit or could be working up to
speed. If you damage a wheel in 1 or 2 and need to pit, you
HAVE to run the apron through 3 and 4.

I had run a damaged car that was topping out at 170 and I
stayed low. It was alot easier to pass me on the outside in
the tri-oval because a faster car would start at the wall,
apex at the edge of the apron (I was well below the line)
and drift out to the wall. (Very little change to the faster
car's line through the turn.) If I had stayed high, I would
have taken an entire lane away from the leaders for a longer
period of time. If I was only a couple of mph off the
leaders' speed then I would go high to let them through.

On other tracks it is easier for slower cars to stay high but
not Talladega. What do you upper echelon drivers think?

 Dan

What you did in the tri-oval is exactly how it should be done.  At slower speeds
(170 or lower) you can easily enter and stay inside the white line (almost in the
grass) of the tri-oval.  If however you had stayed on the outside, you force faster
cars to try and drop below you to pass before the tri-oval, something that rarely
works out well for that car.  It is much easier to pass on the outside in the
tri-oval than to try to stay on the inside because the entry is so narrow and
critical.

M***of the story: When damaged stay out of the racing groove no matter where it
is.  At Talladega this means staying low on the straights, high in the turns, and
VERY low in the tri-oval.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

Eric,
  I've used your setups and like your advice on racing Tally, but
I have to disagree with slower cars running high in turns then moving
across traffic to run low in the tri-oval. That is a wreck-causing
move for anyone slow to move across traffic just to get out of the
faster cars way.
   I have had a few drivers do exactly that and they usually end
up causing a wreck to me or the one behind me. I would much prefer
any slower or damaged driver to take the apron instead. I can change
my line to drive high around them and I doubt you will loose a
position to the driver behind you, because he will have to run the
same line you did to get around the slower driver.

Anyway,,, IMHO. ;)
Later,
TIngram

What really needs to be done is a redesigning of Talladega to make the apron
much slower than it now is.  Once this is done, the racing groove will migrate
up the track.  This will leave the apron free to slower drivers.

I don't like the I line that I take at Talladega.  It's not realistic, and
doesn't leave a lot of room below me.  Only problem is that its the fastest
way around the track and the only way to pass, thus most people follow similar
lines.  

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

I also disagree with this. Slower drivers should stay below the
white when being lapped. This is supposed to be a SIM. I never
raced below the white until Hawaii. But now I have to, to keep
up. I agree it is the faster line.  But slower traffic is less likely
to cause a wreck down on the apron. Well, that's my 2 cents worth.
Maybe Papyrus will make this correction as well, if they redo
Talledega! Are there any other tracks where racing below the
white is the faster groove?

Don Turcotte
DonT

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

There are 2 places on the Talladega track that should be considered noman's land.  The apron
below turns 1,2 and below 3,4 and the middle of a three wide pack in the turns.  If you drop
down to the apron you should lose you're downforce and have to back off to avoid a spin.
Passing on the outside of turn 4 should be possible.  You should have more momentum coming off
the turn.  If you could go 3 wide through the trioval, this would make passing on the outside
more attractive.  Slow cars are supposed to drive down on the apron.  In the turns they are
supposed to have the right to a portion of the banked raceway.  With spotters, this is not a
big problem.  "Got a slow car ahead in turn 3", should be all it takes to make the faster car
take a high line through the turn, thus avoiding the collision.  If 2 cars are nose to tail
going into the turn and the lead car stays high to avoid the slower car, then the trailing car
most respect the line and not drop below the lead car.  They should have both gotten the
warning from the spotters.

Papyrus could probably do more with the spotter messages in hawaii.  Private messages that
pertain to only 1 car could be sent to a specific client connection.  Right now, all messages
are sent to all cars.  Also, talk between cars should not wrap around to the entire track.
"Exiting Pits" should only be broadcast to the cars coming through turn 4 and the trioval.  I
know these are involved changes and I'm not holding my breath, but I am hoping that Papyrus
will continue to implement improvements to the service.  They have done a wonderful job thus
far.

David Martin
IVL Series Director
dgm26sam

=========================================================
==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
==                                                     ==
**               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster (2)     **
*********************************************************

Eric, you're a bright guy who's rank is going up, what do you think is
gonna happen? No way we're both coming out of this one. So I get off
the gas and let this *** go first. Naturally he's in the turn way
late and climbs the turn. Didn't hit the wall, but came real close.
The pisser of the story is that another guy behind me doesn't
recognize that I've backed off and rams me in the rear. We both end up
in the infield, and I get the "thanks" message from my new infield
enemy. Like it was my fault. I did what was required to make it
through the turn without causing a pileup and what do I get for it?
Wrecked in the infiled and the reward of hobbling around the track for
the remaining laps.

Now, odds are that if I hold my line without letting off, we would
have bumped and I would have hit the wall almost parallel and could
have continued with Mr. *** sitting on the grass. But no, I play
it smart and end up getting screwed. And the bonus if having the
"incident" count against me.

Probably the only thing that will change the way the tri-oval is run
right now.

=========================================================
==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
==                                                     ==
**               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster (2)     **
*********************************************************

You had the right of way (at least in my opinion) because you were ahead at the turn's
entry.  He should have backed off and fallen in behind you.  He easily could have
passed you later by using the draft and beating you to the bottom of turn 1.  I
thought that everyone had learned this by now, but unfortunately for you there are
still some idiots out there.

I would have kept my line and not backed off.  You were entering the tri-oval first
and he should have respected that.  If he wants to try passing you that's his fault.  
You would have almost certainly been wrecked this way, but at least he would have been
taken out with you.  It's too bad these things continue to happen, but someday maybe
people will learn.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (5)

I've found that the only way to keep from having incidents through the tri-oval is to block any move
to the inside.  If you do it early enough the other driver should be able to check up and follow you
through.  If you're car really is slower than the other one (by slower, I mean not competitive at
all), then you should be able to take a real low line across the apron and he will pass to the
outside.  If you're car is only a little slower, then he should be able to pass you by the time you
get to the backstretch.  If you're car is just as fast as his, then you have the right to a fast
line through the tri-oval and you shouldn't have to come off the gas to let someone who doesn't know
how to be patient go by.

David Martin
dgm26sam (2)