rec.autos.simulators

> Well first I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my request for info on a FF
> Wheel.

> Last night I picked up the MS Sidewinder at EB for $178.70 (made them
> price-match CDW and used my FB card).

> HARDWARE

> Installation was a breeze once I figured out that you cannot use a joy-switch
> box.  This was a moderate inconvience since I have 2 joys, a game pad, and 2
> wheel/pedal combos.  Now I have to crawl under my desk to plug in either the
> switchbox or the Sidewinder.

> I have to admit I did a double-take when I turned my system on and watch the
> wheel auto-center itself.  Little weird when you aren't expecting it.  My only
> complaints with the wheel itself are the THREE (3) cables coming off the wheel
> which have to be draped over my desk and the butterfly shifters which are just
> not quite long enough when you are really cranking hard in a turn.

> The wheel has a stiff mechanical feel/grainy feel to it when turning it - even
> in non-FF mode.  It wasn't as loose or sloppy as my Nascar Pro wheel.  The
> turning range was much greater than the Nascar Pro wheel.  The Sidewinder has
> almost a full 180deg of lateral motion while the Nascar Pro has between 90-100.
> This is good and bad - I found I had to really crank the wheel to make some
> turns that the Nascar wheel could make with just a nudge.

> I really like the ANGLE the wheel is tilted at.  The Nascar is almost at a 45deg
> tilt like driving a semi-tractor while the Sidewinder is maybe at 5 or 10
> degrees.  I can finally use my THUNDERSEAT (with the 14" sub in the base) and
> have the wheel in a driveable (and realistic) location in front of me.

> SOFTWARE

> VIPER was the first thing I tried and it was stunning.  The realism factor shot
> through the roof and I was totally impressed.  It's a whole new game.

> Tried GPL next (not knowing there isn't (and never will be) FF support.  I
> couldn't even get through the menus with the wheel plugged in.  Only after a 20
> minute call to Sierra and disabling ALL forces and autocentering in the control
> panel was I able to play the game in standard wheel mode.  BUMMER!  Sierra
> claims that adding FF would eat up too many CPU cycles - I say - LET US decide.

> F1RS was next after I downloaded the v109 patch.  I was a bit disappointed that
> the FF seemed to be limited to rumble strips and crashes.  There was no engine
> vibration in the wheel and only a few times did the wheel actually jerk in a
> spinout.  I think the FF in this game needs more work.

> Powerslide was next.  I usually play these arcade racing games with a keyboard
> or my Gravis XTerminator - I had never even used my Nascar Pro wheel in this
> game.  WOW - this game is hard with a wheel!  I had gotten pretty good with a
> keyboard but using a wheel was like starting from scratch and the FF was pretty
> cool.  Each crash and the rocky terrain was perfectly reproduced in the wheel.

> Motorhead was next and its FF was also limited to crashes or severe events.  No
> ambient vibrations or road feedback.

> NFS3 was next.  This was better than I had hoped but still a minor
> disappointment when the bumpy roads and the wooden bridges didn't rumble my
> wheel as much as I had hoped.  I only raced a few tracks so I will have try the
> rest before making any conclusions on this title.

> Monster Truck 2 and Cart Precision came with the wheel.  Cart Precision sucked
> as a standalone game and FF didn't do it any favors.  I got halfway through the
> first lap when ALL the other cars got into a pile-up in turn 2 and just kept
> bumping into each other.  Since I had damage off I just slammed my way through
> and did one lap.  They were still ramming into each other on lap 2 so I
> uninstalled this lemon.  MTM2 was pretty cool.  The road effects (RR tracks,
> etc) had good FF but again - no real engine vibration as you would expect by
> something with a couple 1000 horses under the hood.

> So really VIPER and NFS3 are the only two games (that I own) that are truely
> enhanced with the FF Wheel.  I am looking forward to TransAm and Interstate '82
> and whatever the name of that new GETAWAY DRIVER game is that's coming out this
> year.

> I think FF is still pretty new to racing games and titles will get better as the
> technology matures.  I'm still not sure if the Sidewinder is the best FF wheel
> on the market but it does have the Microsoft name which means that it will (or
> at least SHOULD) be supported by every FF title that ever comes out.

> If you got the $$$ and are looking for a wheel then a FF wheel may be a good
> idea.  If you already have a good wheel then you would probably be better
> waiting for the next generation which will probably be better and cheaper and by
> then there will be more FF titles available.

>Good review, paralleled most of my own experiences except for the
>problems with GPL (think I might have uninstalled GPL before loading the
>wheel since I always had controller problems - before my MSFF, in
>general, with GPL).

>Personally, I don't want too much in the way of engine rumbling & such
>in the games due to the fact that it would probably shorten the life of
>the wheel inards quite a bit. I tried the Nascar Rev demo for about 30
>mins & I could have sworn the wheel didn't feel as "tight" as it had
>before - could have been my imagination, though.

>Also, CPR may suck as a standalone game, but playing on the Zone can be
>quite fun sometimes (when VROC is quiet)

>I've had my wheel for about 3 months now & feel it has stood up rather
>well.

>Cheers,

>Randy

>> Well first I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my request for info
on a FF
>> Wheel.

>> Last night I picked up the MS Sidewinder at EB for $178.70 (made them
>> price-match CDW and used my FB card).

>> HARDWARE

>> Installation was a breeze once I figured out that you cannot use a
joy-switch
>> box.  This was a moderate inconvience since I have 2 joys, a game pad,
and 2
>> wheel/pedal combos.  Now I have to crawl under my desk to plug in either
the
>> switchbox or the Sidewinder.

>> I have to admit I did a double-take when I turned my system on and watch
the
>> wheel auto-center itself.  Little weird when you aren't expecting it.  My
only
>> complaints with the wheel itself are the THREE (3) cables coming off the
wheel
>> which have to be draped over my desk and the butterfly shifters which are
just
>> not quite long enough when you are really cranking hard in a turn.

>> The wheel has a stiff mechanical feel/grainy feel to it when turning it -
even
>> in non-FF mode.  It wasn't as loose or sloppy as my Nascar Pro wheel.
The
>> turning range was much greater than the Nascar Pro wheel.  The Sidewinder
has
>> almost a full 180deg of lateral motion while the Nascar Pro has between
90-100.
>> This is good and bad - I found I had to really crank the wheel to make
some
>> turns that the Nascar wheel could make with just a nudge.

>> I really like the ANGLE the wheel is tilted at.  The Nascar is almost at
a 45deg
>> tilt like driving a semi-tractor while the Sidewinder is maybe at 5 or 10
>> degrees.  I can finally use my THUNDERSEAT (with the 14" sub in the base)
and
>> have the wheel in a driveable (and realistic) location in front of me.

>> SOFTWARE

>> VIPER was the first thing I tried and it was stunning.  The realism
factor shot
>> through the roof and I was totally impressed.  It's a whole new game.

>> Tried GPL next (not knowing there isn't (and never will be) FF support.
I
>> couldn't even get through the menus with the wheel plugged in.  Only
after a 20
>> minute call to Sierra and disabling ALL forces and autocentering in the
control
>> panel was I able to play the game in standard wheel mode.  BUMMER!
Sierra
>> claims that adding FF would eat up too many CPU cycles - I say - LET US
decide.

>> F1RS was next after I downloaded the v109 patch.  I was a bit
disappointed that
>> the FF seemed to be limited to rumble strips and crashes.  There was no
engine
>> vibration in the wheel and only a few times did the wheel actually jerk
in a
>> spinout.  I think the FF in this game needs more work.

>> Powerslide was next.  I usually play these arcade racing games with a
keyboard
>> or my Gravis XTerminator - I had never even used my Nascar Pro wheel in
this
>> game.  WOW - this game is hard with a wheel!  I had gotten pretty good
with a
>> keyboard but using a wheel was like starting from scratch and the FF was
pretty
>> cool.  Each crash and the rocky terrain was perfectly reproduced in the
wheel.

>> Motorhead was next and its FF was also limited to crashes or severe
events.  No
>> ambient vibrations or road feedback.

>> NFS3 was next.  This was better than I had hoped but still a minor
>> disappointment when the bumpy roads and the wooden bridges didn't rumble
my
>> wheel as much as I had hoped.  I only raced a few tracks so I will have
try the
>> rest before making any conclusions on this title.

>> Monster Truck 2 and Cart Precision came with the wheel.  Cart Precision
sucked
>> as a standalone game and FF didn't do it any favors.  I got halfway
through the
>> first lap when ALL the other cars got into a pile-up in turn 2 and just
kept
>> bumping into each other.  Since I had damage off I just slammed my way
through
>> and did one lap.  They were still ramming into each other on lap 2 so I
>> uninstalled this lemon.  MTM2 was pretty cool.  The road effects (RR
tracks,
>> etc) had good FF but again - no real engine vibration as you would expect
by
>> something with a couple 1000 horses under the hood.

>> So really VIPER and NFS3 are the only two games (that I own) that are
truely
>> enhanced with the FF Wheel.  I am looking forward to TransAm and
Interstate '82
>> and whatever the name of that new GETAWAY DRIVER game is that's coming
out this
>> year.

>> I think FF is still pretty new to racing games and titles will get better
as the
>> technology matures.  I'm still not sure if the Sidewinder is the best FF
wheel
>> on the market but it does have the Microsoft name which means that it
will (or
>> at least SHOULD) be supported by every FF title that ever comes out.

>> If you got the $$$ and are looking for a wheel then a FF wheel may be a
good
>> idea.  If you already have a good wheel then you would probably be better
>> waiting for the next generation which will probably be better and cheaper
and by
>> then there will be more FF titles available.

>can't thinke what could be causing your problem.... are you using the
>sidewinder software with gpl. I guess you hae gpl set to direct input rather
>than generic

>-Lindsay

>Last night I picked up the MS Sidewinder at EB for $178.70 (made them
>price-match CDW and used my FB card).

>HARDWARE

>Installation was a breeze once I figured out that you cannot use a
joy-switch
>box.  This was a moderate inconvience since I have 2 joys, a game pad, and
2
>wheel/pedal combos.  Now I have to crawl under my desk to plug in either
the
>switchbox or the Sidewinder.

>I have to admit I did a double-take when I turned my system on and watch
the
>wheel auto-center itself.  Little weird when you aren't expecting it.  My
only
>complaints with the wheel itself are the THREE (3) cables coming off the
wheel
>which have to be draped over my desk and the butterfly shifters which are
just
>not quite long enough when you are really cranking hard in a turn.

>The wheel has a stiff mechanical feel/grainy feel to it when turning it -
even
>in non-FF mode.  It wasn't as loose or sloppy as my Nascar Pro wheel.  The
>turning range was much greater than the Nascar Pro wheel.  The Sidewinder
has
>almost a full 180deg of lateral motion while the Nascar Pro has between
90-100.
>This is good and bad - I found I had to really crank the wheel to make some
>turns that the Nascar wheel could make with just a nudge.

>I really like the ANGLE the wheel is tilted at.  The Nascar is almost at a
45deg
>tilt like driving a semi-tractor while the Sidewinder is maybe at 5 or 10
>degrees.  I can finally use my THUNDERSEAT (with the 14" sub in the base)
and
>have the wheel in a driveable (and realistic) location in front of me.

>SOFTWARE

>VIPER was the first thing I tried and it was stunning.  The realism factor
shot
>through the roof and I was totally impressed.  It's a whole new game.

>Tried GPL next (not knowing there isn't (and never will be) FF support.  I
>couldn't even get through the menus with the wheel plugged in.  Only after
a 20
>minute call to Sierra and disabling ALL forces and autocentering in the
control
>panel was I able to play the game in standard wheel mode.  BUMMER!  Sierra
>claims that adding FF would eat up too many CPU cycles - I say - LET US
decide.

>F1RS was next after I downloaded the v109 patch.  I was a bit disappointed
that
>the FF seemed to be limited to rumble strips and crashes.  There was no
engine
>vibration in the wheel and only a few times did the wheel actually jerk in
a
>spinout.  I think the FF in this game needs more work.

>Powerslide was next.  I usually play these arcade racing games with a
keyboard
>or my Gravis XTerminator - I had never even used my Nascar Pro wheel in
this
>game.  WOW - this game is hard with a wheel!  I had gotten pretty good with
a
>keyboard but using a wheel was like starting from scratch and the FF was
pretty
>cool.  Each crash and the rocky terrain was perfectly reproduced in the
wheel.

>Motorhead was next and its FF was also limited to crashes or severe events.
No
>ambient vibrations or road feedback.

>NFS3 was next.  This was better than I had hoped but still a minor
>disappointment when the bumpy roads and the wooden bridges didn't rumble my
>wheel as much as I had hoped.  I only raced a few tracks so I will have try
the
>rest before making any conclusions on this title.

>Monster Truck 2 and Cart Precision came with the wheel.  Cart Precision
sucked
>as a standalone game and FF didn't do it any favors.  I got halfway through
the
>first lap when ALL the other cars got into a pile-up in turn 2 and just
kept
>bumping into each other.  Since I had damage off I just slammed my way
through
>and did one lap.  They were still ramming into each other on lap 2 so I
>uninstalled this lemon.  MTM2 was pretty cool.  The road effects (RR
tracks,
>etc) had good FF but again - no real engine vibration as you would expect
by
>something with a couple 1000 horses under the hood.

>So really VIPER and NFS3 are the only two games (that I own) that are
truely
>enhanced with the FF Wheel.  I am looking forward to TransAm and Interstate
'82
>and whatever the name of that new GETAWAY DRIVER game is that's coming out
this
>year.

>I think FF is still pretty new to racing games and titles will get better
as the
>technology matures.  I'm still not sure if the Sidewinder is the best FF
wheel
>on the market but it does have the Microsoft name which means that it will
(or
>at least SHOULD) be supported by every FF title that ever comes out.

>If you got the $$$ and are looking for a wheel then a FF wheel may be a
good
>idea.  If you already have a good wheel then you would probably be better
>waiting for the next generation which will probably be better and cheaper
and by
>then there will be more FF titles available.

> Last night I picked up the MS Sidewinder at EB for $178.70 (made them
> price-match CDW and used my FB card).

> HARDWARE

> Installation was a breeze once I figured out that you cannot use a joy-switch
> box.  This was a moderate inconvience since I have 2 joys, a game pad, and 2
> wheel/pedal combos.  Now I have to crawl under my desk to plug in either the
> switchbox or the Sidewinder.

> I have to admit I did a double-take when I turned my system on and watch the
> wheel auto-center itself.  Little weird when you aren't expecting it.  My only
> complaints with the wheel itself are the THREE (3) cables coming off the wheel
> which have to be draped over my desk and the butterfly shifters which are just
> not quite long enough when you are really cranking hard in a turn.

> The wheel has a stiff mechanical feel/grainy feel to it when turning it - even
> in non-FF mode.  It wasn't as loose or sloppy as my Nascar Pro wheel.  The
> turning range was much greater than the Nascar Pro wheel.  The Sidewinder has
> almost a full 180deg of lateral motion while the Nascar Pro has between 90-100.
> This is good and bad - I found I had to really crank the wheel to make some
> turns that the Nascar wheel could make with just a nudge.

> I really like the ANGLE the wheel is tilted at.  The Nascar is almost at a 45deg
> tilt like driving a semi-tractor while the Sidewinder is maybe at 5 or 10
> degrees.  I can finally use my THUNDERSEAT (with the 14" sub in the base) and
> have the wheel in a driveable (and realistic) location in front of me.

> SOFTWARE

> VIPER was the first thing I tried and it was stunning.  The realism factor shot
> through the roof and I was totally impressed.  It's a whole new game.

> Tried GPL next (not knowing there isn't (and never will be) FF support.  I
> couldn't even get through the menus with the wheel plugged in.  Only after a 20
> minute call to Sierra and disabling ALL forces and autocentering in the control
> panel was I able to play the game in standard wheel mode.  BUMMER!  Sierra
> claims that adding FF would eat up too many CPU cycles - I say - LET US decide.

> F1RS was next after I downloaded the v109 patch.  I was a bit disappointed that
> the FF seemed to be limited to rumble strips and crashes.  There was no engine
> vibration in the wheel and only a few times did the wheel actually jerk in a
> spinout.  I think the FF in this game needs more work.

> Powerslide was next.  I usually play these arcade racing games with a keyboard
> or my Gravis XTerminator - I had never even used my Nascar Pro wheel in this
> game.  WOW - this game is hard with a wheel!  I had gotten pretty good with a
> keyboard but using a wheel was like starting from scratch and the FF was pretty
> cool.  Each crash and the rocky terrain was perfectly reproduced in the wheel.

> Motorhead was next and its FF was also limited to crashes or severe events.  No
> ambient vibrations or road feedback.

> NFS3 was next.  This was better than I had hoped but still a minor
> disappointment when the bumpy roads and the wooden bridges didn't rumble my
> wheel as much as I had hoped.  I only raced a few tracks so I will have try the
> rest before making any conclusions on this title.

> Monster Truck 2 and Cart Precision came with the wheel.  Cart Precision sucked
> as a standalone game and FF didn't do it any favors.  I got halfway through the
> first lap when ALL the other cars got into a pile-up in turn 2 and just kept
> bumping into each other.  Since I had damage off I just slammed my way through
> and did one lap.  They were still ramming into each other on lap 2 so I
> uninstalled this lemon.  MTM2 was pretty cool.  The road effects (RR tracks,
> etc) had good FF but again - no real engine vibration as you would expect by
> something with a couple 1000 horses under the hood.

> So really VIPER and NFS3 are the only two games (that I own) that are truely
> enhanced with the FF Wheel.  I am looking forward to TransAm and Interstate '82
> and whatever the name of that new GETAWAY DRIVER game is that's coming out this
> year.

> I think FF is still pretty new to racing games and titles will get better as the
> technology matures.  I'm still not sure if the Sidewinder is the best FF wheel
> on the market but it does have the Microsoft name which means that it will (or
> at least SHOULD) be supported by every FF title that ever comes out.

> If you got the $$$ and are looking for a wheel then a FF wheel may be a good
> idea.  If you already have a good wheel then you would probably be better
> waiting for the next generation which will probably be better and cheaper and by
> then there will be more FF titles available.

>Have you got the Motorhead 2.2 patch?   It's 9Mb but with my Saitek FF wheel it
>produces the best FF effects I've experienced so far.

>Graham

>> Well first I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my request for info on a FF
>> Wheel.

>> Last night I picked up the MS Sidewinder at EB for $178.70 (made them
>> price-match CDW and used my FB card).

>> HARDWARE

>> Installation was a breeze once I figured out that you cannot use a joy-switch
>> box.  This was a moderate inconvience since I have 2 joys, a game pad, and 2
>> wheel/pedal combos.  Now I have to crawl under my desk to plug in either the
>> switchbox or the Sidewinder.

>> I have to admit I did a double-take when I turned my system on and watch the
>> wheel auto-center itself.  Little weird when you aren't expecting it.  My only
>> complaints with the wheel itself are the THREE (3) cables coming off the wheel
>> which have to be draped over my desk and the butterfly shifters which are just
>> not quite long enough when you are really cranking hard in a turn.

>> The wheel has a stiff mechanical feel/grainy feel to it when turning it - even
>> in non-FF mode.  It wasn't as loose or sloppy as my Nascar Pro wheel.  The
>> turning range was much greater than the Nascar Pro wheel.  The Sidewinder has
>> almost a full 180deg of lateral motion while the Nascar Pro has between 90-100.
>> This is good and bad - I found I had to really crank the wheel to make some
>> turns that the Nascar wheel could make with just a nudge.

>> I really like the ANGLE the wheel is tilted at.  The Nascar is almost at a 45deg
>> tilt like driving a semi-tractor while the Sidewinder is maybe at 5 or 10
>> degrees.  I can finally use my THUNDERSEAT (with the 14" sub in the base) and
>> have the wheel in a driveable (and realistic) location in front of me.

>> SOFTWARE

>> VIPER was the first thing I tried and it was stunning.  The realism factor shot
>> through the roof and I was totally impressed.  It's a whole new game.

>> Tried GPL next (not knowing there isn't (and never will be) FF support.  I
>> couldn't even get through the menus with the wheel plugged in.  Only after a 20
>> minute call to Sierra and disabling ALL forces and autocentering in the control
>> panel was I able to play the game in standard wheel mode.  BUMMER!  Sierra
>> claims that adding FF would eat up too many CPU cycles - I say - LET US decide.

>> F1RS was next after I downloaded the v109 patch.  I was a bit disappointed that
>> the FF seemed to be limited to rumble strips and crashes.  There was no engine
>> vibration in the wheel and only a few times did the wheel actually jerk in a
>> spinout.  I think the FF in this game needs more work.

>> Powerslide was next.  I usually play these arcade racing games with a keyboard
>> or my Gravis XTerminator - I had never even used my Nascar Pro wheel in this
>> game.  WOW - this game is hard with a wheel!  I had gotten pretty good with a
>> keyboard but using a wheel was like starting from scratch and the FF was pretty
>> cool.  Each crash and the rocky terrain was perfectly reproduced in the wheel.

>> Motorhead was next and its FF was also limited to crashes or severe events.  No
>> ambient vibrations or road feedback.

>> NFS3 was next.  This was better than I had hoped but still a minor
>> disappointment when the bumpy roads and the wooden bridges didn't rumble my
>> wheel as much as I had hoped.  I only raced a few tracks so I will have try the
>> rest before making any conclusions on this title.

>> Monster Truck 2 and Cart Precision came with the wheel.  Cart Precision sucked
>> as a standalone game and FF didn't do it any favors.  I got halfway through the
>> first lap when ALL the other cars got into a pile-up in turn 2 and just kept
>> bumping into each other.  Since I had damage off I just slammed my way through
>> and did one lap.  They were still ramming into each other on lap 2 so I
>> uninstalled this lemon.  MTM2 was pretty cool.  The road effects (RR tracks,
>> etc) had good FF but again - no real engine vibration as you would expect by
>> something with a couple 1000 horses under the hood.

>> So really VIPER and NFS3 are the only two games (that I own) that are truely
>> enhanced with the FF Wheel.  I am looking forward to TransAm and Interstate '82
>> and whatever the name of that new GETAWAY DRIVER game is that's coming out this
>> year.

>> I think FF is still pretty new to racing games and titles will get better as the
>> technology matures.  I'm still not sure if the Sidewinder is the best FF wheel
>> on the market but it does have the Microsoft name which means that it will (or
>> at least SHOULD) be supported by every FF title that ever comes out.

>> If you got the $$$ and are looking for a wheel then a FF wheel may be a good
>> idea.  If you already have a good wheel then you would probably be better
>> waiting for the next generation which will probably be better and cheaper and by
>> then there will be more FF titles available.