rec.autos.simulators

We've been told not to expect the GPL physics but an overhauled N2
version.  That is acceptable due to the fact that if its going to take a
P4-1ghz machine to produce 30 fps offline then can you imagine what it
will take online.

Racing AI opponents is safe, cheap, and fun (for awhile).  Once you've
had a taste of online *** whether its DeathMatch Half-Life or NROS on
TEN then its very hard to be drawn towards AI opponents.

If Sierra/Papyrus has put together a solid multiplayer product with N3
then it will be a success.  There will always be the desires for
flipping, better AI, 43 car field, better graphics, more realism such as
weather, debris, and mishaps in the pits.  There will always be physics
desires to separate the Nascar sims from other racing "games".  BUT, I
have to believe the ability to race via the internet with at least 20
car fields and do so for free... that will be a hit.

If a huge Counterstrike map can exist with up to 32 individuals running
around spraying bullets, moving in true 3D worlds, including under
water, and up/down elevators then 20 to 30 cars going in circles should
not be TOO much data to handle.

TEN appears to be great for leagues but pickup races are always
fiascos.  If you use their free service then you get only Atlanta and
Watkins.  I'm not sure what it takes for Half-Life (also a Sierra
product) to have its 32000 servers thru WON but I would have to imagine
that NASCAR & GPL could work as well.

Then again, maybe thats why I only "buy" the games and not write them
:)   Anyway, I'll buy it the day it hits the shelf.  I'm sure it will
fall short of many expectations in several areas, but with SOLID
multiplayer support then I believe it will be very popular.

We'll see.

Andrew B.

Bill / Amish on TEN

20 or 30 cars is a LOT of data.  20 racers is about 600 packets a second.
Miss one second of data, and at 200MPH, your car has moved hundreds of
feet..

Racing is probably the most demanding product on servers, routers, etc.
Slow latency= lousy racing.

Regards,
Ken Hower
OSCAR Admin

BrittoEd > >The "be all - end all" for N3 will be its multiplayer support.

If multiplayer and single play are options why would It make a difference to
you?
Multiplayer capability IS the future of ***, any developer that hasn't
figured that out will be left picking crumbs.  Spearheading and on the
cutting edge Is Motorsims who developed  AMA Superbike using multiplayer as
the base priority which emphasizes Mplay but will no doubt have single
play/AI mode. If you prefer not to play against human beings that's your
decision. You should try It, you might like It!

Some prefer to play with others and some prefer to play with themselves.
You understand that don't you?

Coot

The sales will be there, it will be a financial success, but will I be
playing it every day?  Without solid MP... it will be played at times.  The
AI experience never gets your hands sweaty or your heart racing fast...
NEVER... why?   You "know" that there isn't another person at the other end.

Its also pretty cool when you're part of a racing team, using RogerWilco
during the race is a fun experience.  Those AI drivers don't like to chat
much.

Every carset can be tweaked to know which driver is going to run strong or
weak.  With multiplayer... it involves more skill.. and luck for that
matter... no CTL-R to start the race over.

Oh yeah, the ability to meet new people and make friends is pretty cool too.

Andrew "bot" B.

If a bullet is in the wrong position due to latency, or dropped packets,
it's just considered a bad shot if it missed or a lucky shot if it hit.

A car in the wrong position due to latency, or dropped packets is usually
called a wreck.

I doubt that, very seriously.

I've had several 'tastes' of MP and I prefer solo play.

N3 -will- be a success because of Papyrus' reputation for good sims
and having the Nascar logo on the box, not whether it provides
great MP.

I hope you realize that people who play multiplayer constitute a
VERY small portion of the overall sales of any game.

You understand that, don't you?

--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com

[snip]

I'm with Bill and Andrew on this one.
Even though I never got into GPL online (only because I never had the
time to invest to get good offline), there is nothing like a human
opponent. Even a rather arcadish racing game like Motocross Madness is
an absolute blast when you throw in the unpredictability and
competitive drive of other humans.
There is also a certain satisfaction to beating them that is
enormously more gratifying than defeating a computer opponent.

Also important is that it adds to the staying power of a game/sim
exponentially. I haven't played an offline game of MXMadness since a
month after it came out, but I've played online about 3 times a week
from the time I got it.
Had it not had online play, it would basically have been a dust
collector by now. As it is, I got *great* bang for my buck.
I know Ten and NROS offered this stuff, but with N3 it should be more
accessible.
Fast  internet connections are becoming more common, making the whole
situation much more feasible.
Cable is available in my area now, and I'm ecstatic. I can't wait to
do some online paint swapping with fellow RAS'ers. :-)

--

        http://www.users.fast.net/~fusion1
    (dirt bikes, rat bikes, rental car abuse...)

A company could make a lot of money selling a small number of units if
they all signed up to pay for play online service.
But with the cost of labor, hardware, and bandwidth I think the numbers
would need to be higher than 10,000.

A company could also make a lot of money without investing a dime in
online support as long as they sold enough copies - your 250,000 number
would probably turn a nice profit.

So either way the product could be successful, but since Sierra appears
to have no plans for a pay per play service with NASCAR 3, it really
doesn't matter one*** how good the multiplayer is. As long as those
other 240,000 people that have no interest in multiplayer buy the
product, NASCAR 3 will be successful.

The real make or break is whether enough people agree with the reviews
that we have seen so far, that this is more than a patch for NASCAR
1999. A lot of people felt ripped off by NASCAR 1999 and more recently
NASCAR Revolution, so the market may not be as friendly as Sierra seems
to think. Small things like the Brickyard being included, or Jeff
Gordon not being included, will have more effect on N3 sales than our
multiplayer concerns. Not everyone is like us in believing that it is
"no big deal" to have to download a patch from the internet to get
their favorite driver, car make, or track.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Ben

Also a bullet travels 3x faster than a racecar, and were talking about life
or death here. :-)

Jon

BD