rec.autos.simulators

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Bill, that spiel has been punted around here for the past 3 years (at least)
yet the percentage of those who buy to play on-line still remains small in
comparison to those who play off-line.

The majority of retail customers who seriously game on-line is miniscule.
One of the most popular on-line simulation genres for many years has been
the combat flight sim (Warbirds and Air Warrior in particular) yet the
numbers who regularly take part are insignificant in comparison to the total
sales of such simulations.

There is a misconception held by dedicated "on-line" people who converse
regularly here that their interest represents those of the majority of
simmers. I assure you that is not the case: the majority of retail
customers don't know and don't care. They simply want to be entertained by
what they have just bought; to get their money's worth from it before being
attracted to something newer and brighter and possibly more entertaining.

It's as simple as that, mate.

> >I hope you realize that people who play multiplayer constitute a
> >VERY small portion of the overall sales of any game.

> >You understand that, don't you?

> You understand where the future of *** and particular Sim-Racing is
> headed? You should also do the math and analysis of how many people and
or
> market penatration you need to equal just 250,000 retail sales. I have it
> figured on or about 10,000 paying sim-racers. That means those 10,000 sim
> racers will equal in total revenue approx 250,000 retail sales. NOT a
huge
> leap especially considering where we are today. The future is with racing
> against real people, NOT AI cars. The problem is the ease of entry and
the
> quality of play. Right now it takes someone who is willing to tweek their
> systems and live in a good area for internet access to have good quality
of
> play. Therefore, do YOU understand the importance of online racing?

> Bill / Amish on TEN

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by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

You're wrong, Adam.
Whilst growing, the on-line fraternity is still a tiny minority of the total
who buy simulations (or any other multi-*** software).

> Actually, it is not a VERY small number of people who care about MP.
> The number of people looking for good MP games is growing larger and
> larger......hence why some ONLINE-ONLY games are VERY VERY popular.
> (Everquest, UO, soon to be Q3A)
> Time to realize that just cause you don't care about MP, you are
slowly
> becoming part of the minority, and not the majority.

> > On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:05:26 -0700,

> > >The "be all - end all" for N3 will be its multiplayer support.

> > I doubt that, very seriously.

> > >Racing AI opponents is safe, cheap, and fun (for awhile). Once you've
> > >had a taste of online *** whether its DeathMatch Half-Life or NROS
on
> > >TEN then its very hard to be drawn towards AI opponents.

> > I've had several 'tastes' of MP and I prefer solo play.

> > >If Sierra/Papyrus has put together a solid multiplayer product with N3
> > >then it will be a success.

> > N3 -will- be a success because of Papyrus' reputation for good sims
> > and having the Nascar logo on the box, not whether it provides
> > great MP.

> > I hope you realize that people who play multiplayer constitute a
> > VERY small portion of the overall sales of any game.

> > You understand that, don't you?

> > --
> > * rrevved at mindspring dot com

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by **Ed Ba** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:17:08 -0500,

If N3, or any other game had great MP, it wouldn't matter to me -at all-.
I would be glad for those people who like MP.

In case it was lost on you, I was challenging the ***from TEN's
allegations that N3 wouldn't be successful without great MP.

Of course, he hasn't a clue.

What he -should- have said, is that TEN won't be successful if
games don't have great MP.

Or, he could have said that 10% of the people who will lay down
their cash for N3 might be disappointed if N3 doesn't have good MP.

I have, many times, in lots of genres.
I didn't like it.

You, Cooter, are the posterboy / stereotype for 90% of the
gamers that are online today.

*plonk*

--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Ed Ba** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:33:18 -0500,

AMEN.

--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Stev** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

How so Bruce, where do you get your facts from anyway? Mulitplayer ***
is getting stronger everyday, mostly because of faster computers, better
internet access and having internet support right out of the box. To be
honest you sound like your one of these people who plays a game online,
loses and quits playing. If you don't like to lose to people then yes
Mulitplayer *** is not for you, because no matter how good you are there
is always someone who is better.

Games like Everquest, ultiama online, are online only games, and they do
very well in sales along side your "singleplayer" games. If you don't like
Muiltiplayer ***, then don't get AMA superbike, don't get Nascar3,
instead of getting those games get ExtrameG by acclaim, its a racing game
with zero multiplayer support and sense you like playing with yourself,
should suit you very well. Or better yet get that racing game that was made
by Jeff Gardon it has no muiltiplayer player support either, and will suit
you as well also.

> Bill, that spiel has been punted around here for the past 3 years (at
least)
> yet the percentage of those who buy to play on-line still remains small in
> comparison to those who play off-line.

> The majority of retail customers who seriously game on-line is miniscule.
> One of the most popular on-line simulation genres for many years has been
> the combat flight sim (Warbirds and Air Warrior in particular) yet the
> numbers who regularly take part are insignificant in comparison to the
total
> sales of such simulations.

> There is a misconception held by dedicated "on-line" people who converse
> regularly here that their interest represents those of the majority of
> simmers. I assure you that is not the case: the majority of retail
> customers don't know and don't care. They simply want to be entertained
by
> what they have just bought; to get their money's worth from it before
being
> attracted to something newer and brighter and possibly more entertaining.

> It's as simple as that, mate.

> > >I hope you realize that people who play multiplayer constitute a
> > >VERY small portion of the overall sales of any game.

> > >You understand that, don't you?

> > You understand where the future of *** and particular Sim-Racing is
> > headed? You should also do the math and analysis of how many people and
> or
> > market penatration you need to equal just 250,000 retail sales. I have
it
> > figured on or about 10,000 paying sim-racers. That means those 10,000
sim
> > racers will equal in total revenue approx 250,000 retail sales. NOT a
> huge
> > leap especially considering where we are today. The future is with
racing
> > against real people, NOT AI cars. The problem is the ease of entry and
> the
> > quality of play. Right now it takes someone who is willing to tweek
their
> > systems and live in a good area for internet access to have good quality
> of
> > play. Therefore, do YOU understand the importance of online racing?

> > Bill / Amish on TEN

> -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
> ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers

==-----

by **Michael E. Carve** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

% Bill, that spiel has been punted around here for the past 3 years (at least)
% yet the percentage of those who buy to play on-line still remains small in
% comparison to those who play off-line.

This is changing even as we speak and will continue to change at an ever
increasing rate. Get ready for the future and stop living in the past
(in computer/Internet language the past is now).

As computer games are increasingly released with built in and easy to
use online play (Motorsims and Papyrus) the move will begin. If I
undertand things correctly N3 will be even easier to get started racing
online out of the box than GPL ever was.

Remember what they said just a short while ago about online shopping and
e-commerce? Well, that jinni is out of its bottle. The online ***
jinni has been released and won't be put back into its bottle.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by Jo » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>You understand where the future of *** and particular Sim-Racing is
>headed?

There will probably be *some* more penetration into the multiplayer
genre, with "community based" online games like the upcoming AMA
Superbike. But as long as it's simple match-making (like GPL or N3)
there will still be a large offline-racer market. The pickup races are
usually lame, it's hard to find a good race. And many people don't
have the time - or the ability to commit to *** at specific dates
and times - to join a league.

I think the AMA Superbike system is the way to go. Both leagues and
pickup races, but with the pickup races including a rating system so
you can find races at your own level of ability (without the trouble
of joining a league).

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

by Jo » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>How so Bruce, where do you get your facts from anyway? Mulitplayer ***
>is getting stronger everyday...

I constantly hear this, usually from online-*** fans. But the sales
numbers don't really back it up. It's getting a little bigger, but no
where near the point of approaching the strength of the offline-***
market.

That's a myth. It's not connection speed that's limiting multiplayer
***, it's the [so far] lack of imagination put into the games
themselves. First-person shooters are a perfect example - hardly a one
of them has evolved beyond plain deathmatch (or minor variations of it
based on team play). Racing games just have simple match-making
Internet play. Both those limited genres are probably saturated
already - that is, everyone interested in that style of gameplay is
already playing it.

The secret to expanding the multiplayer market is to make the
multiplayer experience more interesting (i.e., like Everquest - not my
cup of tea, but it's innovative in it's own way).

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

by **Michael Barlo** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

hmmm, I don't have time to attend all the NASCAR Winston cup races.
There fore there is no future in NASCAR racing! <G>

Mike

> >You understand where the future of *** and particular Sim-Racing is
> >headed?

> There will probably be *some* more penetration into the multiplayer
> genre, with "community based" online games like the upcoming AMA
> Superbike. But as long as it's simple match-making (like GPL or N3)
> there will still be a large offline-racer market. The pickup races are
> usually lame, it's hard to find a good race. And many people don't
> have the time - or the ability to commit to *** at specific dates
> and times - to join a league.

> I think the AMA Superbike system is the way to go. Both leagues and
> pickup races, but with the pickup races including a rating system so
> you can find races at your own level of ability (without the trouble
> of joining a league).

> Joe McGinn
> ==========================================
> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
> ==========================================

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

by **ymenar** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Exactly like pickup races on the NROS. It is still at the moment the best
online racing service we can find, whatever people will say. We're
9000people there who have races and paid for it, without any publicity, no
adds, nothing. Just think with a mass-market penetration that N3 will make,
how it could grow up.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Stev** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

...

> I constantly hear this, usually from online-*** fans. But the sales
> numbers don't really back it up. It's getting a little bigger, but no
> where near the point of approaching the strength of the offline-***
> market.

Just like I told Bruce, where did you get your Numbers? How do you know
that the offine market is so much bigger then the online market or are you
just gussing here?

Oh I don't know about that Joe, I'm sure someone with ADSL, or Cable will
have a much better time playing internet games then someone with a 56k
connection...just makes sense don't you think?

True and just looking over AMA superbike's web site I would have to say
its heading in that direction.

by **Ed Ba** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:32:00 -0400,

>> I constantly hear this, usually from online-*** fans. But the sales
>> numbers don't really back it up. It's getting a little bigger, but no
>> where near the point of approaching the strength of the offline-***
>> market.

>Just like I told Bruce, where did you get your Numbers? How do you know
>that the offine market is so much bigger then the online market or are you
>just gussing here?

The data is posted occasionally by PCDATA. Avault covers it every 4 or 5
months. It is usually a 15-20% online player to single-player ratio. You
might be able to find it in their archives.

Let's get back to the original poster's claims.

The TEN jerk said:

"The "be all - end all" for N3 will be its multiplayer support."

"If Sierra/Papyrus has put together a solid multiplayer product with N3
then it will be a success. "

I am not saying that great MP is a bad thing, or that the users of MP
are not increasing, or that this ng doesn't have a higher pecentage of
MP players.

I am just saying that to think that N3 will -fail- without great MP, is ridiculous.

--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Michael P. Mabre** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I guess this shows everybody how you feel about everybody that has ever
raced on TEN........ I guess your opinions and ideas are much more valuable
and closer to fact than anybody elses. I guess from now on I should only
read your posts and forget about everybody else's, since they are of no
value to anybody.

>On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:32:00 -0400,

>Let's get back to the original poster's claims.

>The TEN jerk said:

by **Mike Whit** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>> I guess this shows everybody how you feel about everybody that has ever
>> raced on TEN........ I guess your opinions and ideas are much more
>valuable
>> and closer to fact than anybody elses. I guess from now on I should only
>> read your posts and forget about everybody else's, since they are of no
>> value to anybody.

>Hey Mike nice reply :)

Personally I don't think it was a nice reply and very unlike the Mike Mabrey
we've come to know.

The original message contained "The TEN jerk"... creating a "hostile"
thread.
This reply did nothing more than fan the flame.

Some threads are best left without a response.

by **Michael Barlo** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I never put down the NROS for VROC. NROS and VROC are two different
things, NROS is a racing series where as VROC is a place to connect to
to race GPL. I correct the miss interpretations people make about GPL
or GSB as well as mention my experiences on both TEN and VROC. But not
NROS for VROC. I have made strong opinions about TEN and GSB. But not
the NROS for VROC... I will make strong opinions about oval racing and
road racing. But not NROS for VROC.
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

rec.autos.simulators

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