rec.autos.simulators

What fabulous customer service for a game that is almost two years old.

Will we ever stop playing it? - Not now.

Best wishes to all at Papy,

Chris Wright

p.s.
anyone want to buy two VOODOO 2's

On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:24:45 +0100, "Chris Wright"

GP3 is going to have to be damm good to drag me away from GPL

Some Call Me Tim

Nice one Papy!

How do u get GPL to run in a window?

8-)

*Peter* -  http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

LOL!!

You still don't get it. GPL didn't bomb because it played poorly or
looked bad. Two years ago on my Voodoo 2 cards this was the best
looking racing game on the planet.

But it's still 1967 GP racing, so it still won't sell to the mass
market that has no clue who the "Legends" in this game are - and no
appreciation for driving 30 year old cars.

Even the NASCAR Legends sim bombed, and NASCAR is incredibly popular
right now in the U.S. The ***agers that make up the bulk of software
sales just don't have any sense of nostalgia for the past. This is the
"what have you done for me lately" era, Richard Petty is now Richard
who? Oh, Kyle's dad... yeah.

I don't think anyone reviewed GPL on a TNT back in 1998 ...

Daniel

--
 ICQ UIN: 30333508
 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

as for the rolling stones, maybe they just got lucky with the audience, or
the part I saw wasn't indicative of the audience as a whole.

Anyhow I thought the PC *** market was in their 20's and 30's (unlike
consoles) therefore all the old guys must not be that nostalgic about it
either.

Maybe we all really secretly wanted to drive the 6 wheel car and were
disappointed, so we brought it back?

I have played enough games (right back to 8-bit BBC Micros) to know it
is not about understanding an era it is about it being a good playable
game with good marketing. For instance, look at war games and the
like: how many kids (or ***s today) have been to war or fought?
There are so many cases where marketing has won the day - MacOS and
Win98...

People who would buy driving sims are plenty and not just ***agers. I
saw Mobil 1 Rally Championship obtain huge sales and it's a British
rally game - on paper it sounds very boring. TOCA2 is another 'boring'
British rally game. Colin McRae Rally another one - look at them
anticipating CMR2 on the PC. Each of those games sold and still sells.
Europe, believe it or not, is a huge place and is a market in its own
right. Tell people what it is, how exciting it is and how much fun it
is. Have it reviewed so they see that the 'experts' like it.
Basically, it is how you present it.

Who says, apart from you, that it is ***agers who account for the
"bulk of software sales"? That's nonsense. BTW, it is not just kids
who buy *games*. Many 'older' people also buy and enjoy them.

"Kai Fuller" wrote

True.

I never said "should have", I just said don't have. I grew up with my
dad telling me about the "glory days" of racing, so I'm a bit more
nostalgic than most I guess, and I still think GPL was a misguided
conception.

Have you been to one of those concerts? *** fans? The crowd looks
closer to retirement age.

They probably spent more money promoting GPL than they did all their
NASCAR titles combined. They pushed it real hard, but those magazine
ads were pathetic. I remember one said something about how deadly
racing was back then, making mention of the flames et al.

I think they were trying to cater to the Quake crowd - *** and guts.
I laugh thinking about it now , imagining ***s buying GPL thinking it
was Carmagedden or something, LOL!

The situation wasn't that GPL wasn't exposed well though, initial
shipments flew off the shelves. But instead of the buyers telling
friends how cool it was and building momentum, they were on their way
back to the mall to get an refund.

Maybe if it were modern F1 or CART, people would have been more
willing to suffer through he steep learning curve, but spending hours
practicing so they could complete one lap - forget about even compete
in, much less win, a race - against a bunch of old blokes they had
never heard of... I don't blame the ***s for not buying it.

<snip>

Therein lies the problem.  GPL is hard, it takes work and dedication.
There's no instant gratification, you won't be winning races in an hour,
it's not Need for Speed.  I flashed it up for my nephew and his buddy and
within minutes they were doing backwards laps against the field trying to
outdo each other in terms of "best crash".  That got old real quick and
they were back to Half-Life.  I showed them a replay of one of my friends
laps, and said this is what a good lap looks like.  I was rewarded with
blank stares and "What do you mean, 'good lap'?" questions.  Nascar2 could
justifiably be called a simulator rather than an arcade game, it was
easier than this, anyone could do laps and keep it on the track after an
hour or so, and it sold.  GPL is a masterpiece, there's no question in my
mind about that, but it is definitely a niche market game, and it found
its market.  It's just too bad that market is so small.

Personally, given the degree of difficulty and the learning curve
involved, I doubt it would have done any better if it had been released as
a modern day F1 or CART sim.  Only a very narrow segment of the buying
public is willing to put in the time necessary to become competent at a
sim of this difficulty.  Using a current, popular venue would not
alleviate this fact.  Many people today, especially ***agers (in my
experience), seem to want a game where they can be up to speed in five
minutes, let alone 30 or 40 hours.  I confess I almost abandoned GPL
myself, after doing what seemed like endless laps without being able to
keep it on the track.  Simple sells, Deer Hunter is proof.  I only hope
that companies like Papyrus continue to produce titles of this quality to
satisfy the mere 40,000 or so of us that really, really appreciate them.

            Doug

--
Ian P
<email address invalid due to spam

The demographics have changed quite a bit just in the two years since
GPL, with many more people - older people - owning home PC's.

***s do buy a lot of games now, in some ways they are driving the
market these days. Games like Deerhunter and Who Wants to be a
Millionaire would never see there way to the top of the charts if it
were up to ***agers.

So in some ways you're probably right, a realistic racing simulator
would have a better chance of selling today than it did in 1998. Now
there are a lot more people that have steering wheels connected to
their PC's, many with FF support, so that alone would improve the
games chances. I can't help but wonder how many people that returned
GPL had tried to drive it with a keyboard.

If they really wanted to re-release GPL, they could take the converted
N3 tracks, make some slight modifications to the cars and physics,
slap on some IRL logos and maybe a pic of Juan Montoya winning Indy -
bam, instant best seller.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPL hcp. +77.11

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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