rec.autos.simulators

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 11:20:47

All I can say is, whoaa!!

Thank you Papy, for an incredible simulation! What a going away present,
while I am sad this is slated to be the last of this most successful series
from Papy, I am elated at what I am seeing so far.
Absolutely incredible.

I just spent about 45 minutes playing around at Lowe's night in both testing
and single race. That solar flare is incredible, the sense of speed on the
track is great, and the car is a real joy to drive.
I was actually suprised my framerates were as good as they were.

My system:
Athlon XP2400+ running at 2.1 ghz
Gainward GeForce4 Ti4400 video card
Audigy 2 soundcard
1gb pc2700 ddr ram ( running dual)
Asus A7N8X Deluxe Nforce2 mb
Windows XP Pro

The graphics are absolutely stunning.
Starting at the back of the pack in a 42 car field at Lowes Night :
1280x1024x32 running in D3D
All graphics checked
Car detail high
Track and world detail medium
Mirror medium
Cars drawn ahead 20
Cars drawn behind 5
Sounds heard: 10
3d sound
FF steering ( Momo)

Averaged 45-60 fps, very driveable.
My initial impressions of the ai were very good, though I have only spent
abut 30 minutes on the track with them.
The windshield progressive buildup is awesome.
One thing I found interesting, I did not see a big fps difference from
testing mode and race mode, no where near like I saw in previous NXXX
iterations. Matter of fact, I would even say there was very little
difference in fps between racing with a 42 car field and testing by myself.
The cars are beautiful.

I haven't done much racing of late, and am now planning on spending a lot of
time in preparation for the league I run in to start up again in about a
week and a half. Once again, I am very e***d about online racing, can't
wait. Guess I am going to have to lay off my flight sims now for a little
while.

Papy, ya done good!! Feel free to produce an open wheel sim anytime!

One note that may help anyone else that comes across this, with my Momo
after installation and setting it up in the N2003 setup screen, my pedals
were not recognized. I changed to generic driver, then changed back to
direct input, and my pedals were recognized fine then. FF seems to be very
good in this sim as well.

Damnit, I didn't get much sleep last night, and was planning on going to bed
early tonight - yeah, right!!!

I'll do some more tracks to get a feel for the fps, and then install that
9700 pro this weekend and see what kind of difference it makes.

Man, this thing is awesome!

--
Don Burnette

smile.gif
< 1K Download

by **Rush** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 11:50:13

Roger That!!!!

by **nobody specia** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:03:47

(snipped)

In your opinion, what does it have that makes it well worth the upgrade from
NR2002? I'll pick it up sooner or later, no doubt, but I'm still enjoying
NR2002 so much that I can't see what the new version has that is worth the
jump right now.

thanks

by **Larr** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:09:01

It really is completely different in a way.

The physics model is completely different. The AI is completely different
(and raceable!). The whole thing is a really different animal.

Someone said on Sierra that this is exactly why they are not allowing points
transfers from NR2002. The physics model is so different, everyone is to
start from scratch.

Larry

> > All I can say is, whoaa!!
> (snipped)

> In your opinion, what does it have that makes it well worth the upgrade
from
> NR2002? I'll pick it up sooner or later, no doubt, but I'm still enjoying
> NR2002 so much that I can't see what the new version has that is worth the
> jump right now.

> thanks

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:35:17

>> All I can say is, whoaa!!
> (snipped)

> In your opinion, what does it have that makes it well worth the
> upgrade from NR2002? I'll pick it up sooner or later, no doubt, but
> I'm still enjoying NR2002 so much that I can't see what the new
> version has that is worth the jump right now.

> thanks

Would be hard for me to go into great detail at this point after only
spending about an hour and a half with it, but so far I would say the
following:

Graphics - of course, you need some muscle under that pc hood to run em.
Driving model - can't quite put my finger on it yet, but I like it better.
Car seems easier to work with, yet if you get too carried away it will still
bite you.
AI - easier to race with, especially side by side. AI seems more
intelligent.
Damage model - if you get some damage, it is more realistic. Especially when
getting repaired, chances are you won't be as fast.
Sound - About on par with N2002.
Graphics overhead - while running with most of the eye candy on will
certainly cost you some fps, it appears initially to me that the number of
cars in the race does not have much of a performance hit like it did. Also,
it seems you can run in higher resolutions without as severe a performance
hit as it used to be.
Single race menu - ok, this is a small thing, but I really like how you
don't have to advance through the sessions anymore, just click on the one
you want.
AI Choices - haven't really played with them yet, but you can set manually
or have them automatically adjust to your driving.
Progressive dirty windshield - I just think that is really cool :).

--
Don Burnette

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:37:37

Agreed Larry.
Another observation - I always ran my Momo with 100% linearity in N2002.
I found both the fast setup and the Jasper setup to be loose at Lowe's. (
haven't tried other tracks yet). I found myself losing the rear end way more
than I would like.
I started playing around with the gas, and feathering it more and more
throughout the turns, and that helped some.
I then reduced my linearity to 85%, and that helped some as well.

--
Don Burnette

> It really is completely different in a way.

> The physics model is completely different. The AI is completely
> different (and raceable!). The whole thing is a really different
> animal.

> Someone said on Sierra that this is exactly why they are not allowing
> points transfers from NR2002. The physics model is so different,
> everyone is to start from scratch.

> Larry

>>> All I can say is, whoaa!!
>> (snipped)

>> In your opinion, what does it have that makes it well worth the
>> upgrade from NR2002? I'll pick it up sooner or later, no doubt, but
>> I'm still enjoying NR2002 so much that I can't see what the new
>> version has that is worth the jump right now.

>> thanks

by **Tim Mise** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:34:53

I enjoy quite a few things about this sim. First off, Infineon Raceway is
anatomically correct! :) Although it is missing the turn 9 grandstands now
at least they did the bulldozer on the hill.

I like how they changed the wallriding penalty
-+.*

by **Tim Mise** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:43:16

(Cordless keyboard battery went dead...sorry!)

I enjoy quite a few things about this sim. First off, Infineon Raceway is
anatomically correct! :) Although it is missing the turn 9 grandstands now
at least they did the bulldozer on the hill and removed the inside wall in
the hairpin, extended turn 7 and have the concrete paved overruns. Way to
go Papy!

I like how they changed the wall riding penalty. If you scrape the wall you
will lose a little speed but if you stay on the wall accelerating, your
speed will drop extremely fast. This is the perfect solution in my opinion
compared to that delayed penalty from NR2002.

Also, the AI's crash avoidance is much improved that I noticed right away.
Will have to practice crashing a bit more to come to a final conclusion but
so far it's quite the improvement.

Gotta go try that night racing thing now.....

-Tim

> I enjoy quite a few things about this sim. First off, Infineon Raceway
is
> anatomically correct! :) Although it is missing the turn 9 grandstands
now
> at least they did the bulldozer on the hill.

> I like how they changed the wallriding penalty
> -+.*

> > All I can say is, whoaa!!

> > Thank you Papy, for an incredible simulation! What a going away present,
> > while I am sad this is slated to be the last of this most successful
> series
> > from Papy, I am elated at what I am seeing so far.
> > Absolutely incredible.

> > I just spent about 45 minutes playing around at Lowe's night in both
> testing
> > and single race. That solar flare is incredible, the sense of speed on
the
> > track is great, and the car is a real joy to drive.
> > I was actually suprised my framerates were as good as they were.

> > My system:
> > Athlon XP2400+ running at 2.1 ghz
> > Gainward GeForce4 Ti4400 video card
> > Audigy 2 soundcard
> > 1gb pc2700 ddr ram ( running dual)
> > Asus A7N8X Deluxe Nforce2 mb
> > Windows XP Pro

> > The graphics are absolutely stunning.
> > Starting at the back of the pack in a 42 car field at Lowes Night :
> > 1280x1024x32 running in D3D
> > All graphics checked
> > Car detail high
> > Track and world detail medium
> > Mirror medium
> > Cars drawn ahead 20
> > Cars drawn behind 5
> > Sounds heard: 10
> > 3d sound
> > FF steering ( Momo)

> > Averaged 45-60 fps, very driveable.
> > My initial impressions of the ai were very good, though I have only
spent
> > abut 30 minutes on the track with them.
> > The windshield progressive buildup is awesome.
> > One thing I found interesting, I did not see a big fps difference from
> > testing mode and race mode, no where near like I saw in previous NXXX
> > iterations. Matter of fact, I would even say there was very little
> > difference in fps between racing with a 42 car field and testing by
> myself.
> > The cars are beautiful.

> > I haven't done much racing of late, and am now planning on spending a
lot
> of
> > time in preparation for the league I run in to start up again in about a
> > week and a half. Once again, I am very e***d about online racing,
can't
> > wait. Guess I am going to have to lay off my flight sims now for a
little
> > while.

> > Papy, ya done good!! Feel free to produce an open wheel sim anytime!

> > One note that may help anyone else that comes across this, with my Momo
> > after installation and setting it up in the N2003 setup screen, my
pedals
> > were not recognized. I changed to generic driver, then changed back to
> > direct input, and my pedals were recognized fine then. FF seems to be
very
> > good in this sim as well.

> > Damnit, I didn't get much sleep last night, and was planning on going to
> bed
> > early tonight - yeah, right!!!

> > I'll do some more tracks to get a feel for the fps, and then install
that
> > 9700 pro this weekend and see what kind of difference it makes.

> > Man, this thing is awesome!

> > --
> > Don Burnette

by **Redmis** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:50:33

It's no GPL.

by **nobody specia** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:04:34

> >> All I can say is, whoaa!!
> > (snipped)

> > In your opinion, what does it have that makes it well worth the
> > upgrade from NR2002? I'll pick it up sooner or later, no doubt, but
> > I'm still enjoying NR2002 so much that I can't see what the new
> > version has that is worth the jump right now.

> > thanks

> Would be hard for me to go into great detail at this point after only
> spending about an hour and a half with it, but so far I would say the
> following:

> Graphics - of course, you need some muscle under that pc hood to run em.
> Driving model - can't quite put my finger on it yet, but I like it better.
> Car seems easier to work with, yet if you get too carried away it will
still
> bite you.
> AI - easier to race with, especially side by side. AI seems more
> intelligent.
> Damage model - if you get some damage, it is more realistic. Especially
when
> getting repaired, chances are you won't be as fast.
> Sound - About on par with N2002.
> Graphics overhead - while running with most of the eye candy on will
> certainly cost you some fps, it appears initially to me that the number
of
> cars in the race does not have much of a performance hit like it did.
Also,
> it seems you can run in higher resolutions without as severe a performance
> hit as it used to be.
> Single race menu - ok, this is a small thing, but I really like how you
> don't have to advance through the sessions anymore, just click on the one
> you want.
> AI Choices - haven't really played with them yet, but you can set manually
> or have them automatically adjust to your driving.
> Progressive dirty windshield - I just think that is really cool :).

ok- I'm sold :-) sounds like there really are quite a few changes.

thanks!

by **Bill Worre** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:30:18

Don,

I think you're right about the effect of AI on the FPS, it doesn't seem to
slow down much with a full field.

I tried the same settings as you (I'm assuming you weren't running any
anti-aliasing) and saw similar numbers.
At Lowe's from the back of the grid at the start:
with Anisotropic Filtering ~36 FPS
without ~44

I tried turning absolutely everything on and ran some laps at Lowe's.
from the back of the grid at the start ~18 FPS
during race 12 - 20 FPS

That seems promising, another generation or 2 of video and cpu's ...

My system:
P4 2.4B oc to 2.7 GHz
512 MB PC3200 RAM
GeForce 4 Ti4400 (oc 325/650)
SB Audigy
XP Pro

P.S. Yes, it would be nice to see another CART sim. It's only been 8 years!

by **MadDAW** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 20:04:54

Its pretty much like the change from N4 to NR2002. They are hard to explain,
but once you drive its really easy to see. From everything I have seen the
racing should be many levels above the previous titles.

MadDAWG

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 21:21:45

Correct, I do not run with any fsaa or anisotropic on on my GeForce 4 card.
Going to put a 9700 Pro in this weekend, so hopefully will be able to crank
up those settings.

--
Don Burnette

> Don,

> I think you're right about the effect of AI on the FPS, it doesn't
> seem to slow down much with a full field.

> I tried the same settings as you (I'm assuming you weren't running any
> anti-aliasing) and saw similar numbers.
> At Lowe's from the back of the grid at the start:
> with Anisotropic Filtering ~36 FPS
> without ~44

> I tried turning absolutely everything on and ran some laps at Lowe's.
> from the back of the grid at the start ~18 FPS
> during race 12 - 20 FPS

> That seems promising, another generation or 2 of video and cpu's ...

> My system:
> P4 2.4B oc to 2.7 GHz
> 512 MB PC3200 RAM
> GeForce 4 Ti4400 (oc 325/650)
> SB Audigy
> XP Pro

> P.S. Yes, it would be nice to see another CART sim. It's only been 8
> years!

>> All I can say is, whoaa!!

>> Thank you Papy, for an incredible simulation! What a going away
>> present, while I am sad this is slated to be the last of this most
>> successful series from Papy, I am elated at what I am seeing so far.
>> Absolutely incredible.

>> I just spent about 45 minutes playing around at Lowe's night in both
>> testing and single race. That solar flare is incredible, the sense
>> of speed on the track is great, and the car is a real joy to drive.
>> I was actually suprised my framerates were as good as they were.

>> My system:
>> Athlon XP2400+ running at 2.1 ghz
>> Gainward GeForce4 Ti4400 video card
>> Audigy 2 soundcard
>> 1gb pc2700 ddr ram ( running dual)
>> Asus A7N8X Deluxe Nforce2 mb
>> Windows XP Pro

>> The graphics are absolutely stunning.
>> Starting at the back of the pack in a 42 car field at Lowes Night :
>> 1280x1024x32 running in D3D
>> All graphics checked
>> Car detail high
>> Track and world detail medium
>> Mirror medium
>> Cars drawn ahead 20
>> Cars drawn behind 5
>> Sounds heard: 10
>> 3d sound
>> FF steering ( Momo)

>> Averaged 45-60 fps, very driveable.
>> My initial impressions of the ai were very good, though I have only
>> spent abut 30 minutes on the track with them.
>> The windshield progressive buildup is awesome.
>> One thing I found interesting, I did not see a big fps difference
>> from testing mode and race mode, no where near like I saw in
>> previous NXXX iterations. Matter of fact, I would even say there was
>> very little difference in fps between racing with a 42 car field and
>> testing by myself. The cars are beautiful.

>> I haven't done much racing of late, and am now planning on spending
>> a lot of time in preparation for the league I run in to start up
>> again in about a week and a half. Once again, I am very e***d
>> about online racing, can't wait. Guess I am going to have to lay off
>> my flight sims now for a little while.

>> Papy, ya done good!! Feel free to produce an open wheel sim anytime!

>> One note that may help anyone else that comes across this, with my
>> Momo after installation and setting it up in the N2003 setup screen,
>> my pedals were not recognized. I changed to generic driver, then
>> changed back to direct input, and my pedals were recognized fine
>> then. FF seems to be very good in this sim as well.

>> Damnit, I didn't get much sleep last night, and was planning on
>> going to bed early tonight - yeah, right!!!

>> I'll do some more tracks to get a feel for the fps, and then install
>> that 9700 pro this weekend and see what kind of difference it makes.

>> Man, this thing is awesome!

>> --
>> Don Burnette

by **Gary Wample** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 21:29:17

I believe I read that there is an adjustable in-car view in N2003? Is this
true?

by **Larr** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 22:45:36

I haven't seen the wallriding effect yet. What does it do now ?