rec.autos.simulators

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:24:08

I'd agree with that sentiment.

I havent crunched any numbers but Id throw out a guess that the group that
endlessly complain about the ISI sims arent using FF wheels.

Hell I'd be po'd too had I spent over a grand on a wheel that is nearly
useless in ISI sims ;)

While not perfect rFactor is the best we currently have.

Mitch

>>>Try it with a big screen, act-labs shifter, 3D glasses and Trackir. Do
>>>you still drive with a keyboard?

>> Actually, I drive without force feedback. Somehow Papy sims and even
>> RBR with its incredibly basic***pit view manage to convey the
>> information I need to feel in control of the car without having some
>> over-exaggerated motorized wheel in my hands. I've never felt truly in
>> control of the car in ISI sims. *shrug* I think the "feel" being
>> conveyed by the***pit is much better in rFactor than anything they've
>> done previously, but the sound is totally useless.

> The sound is one of the nigh points in rf, for me. And as for the amount
> of feel I get for the contact patches of the tyres through the FFB wheel,
> well, I'm blown away!

> Pound to a penny, it's your minimalistic approach which is holding back
> your enjoyment.

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:24:59

You sure make a lot of noise for being uninterested JM.

Mitch

>> Sounds exactly like what Jonathan Davis said (but pretty much nobody
>> else.) Been spending too much time in #gpl eh?

> I haven't been in #GPL in like 3 years. Not much interest in the sim
> since Nascar 2002 came out.

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:31:04

Ive seen all kinds in here over the last decade but comparing GP4 to rFactor
takes the grand prize.

Even ymenards self proclaimed presidency of ras looks sane by comparison,
hehe.

Mitch

>> Everything has to end. Anybody remember this guy called Geoff Crammond?

> You mean the guy who owns the distinction of making the only modern F1
> sim with artificial intelligence and real tracks?

> .........and no multiplayer, and fixed frame rates, and lack of support
> for Voodoo II cards with GP3, and....................

by **Jeff Rei** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 02:22:23

For most games, I find the solution to the sound issue is
to turn up the tire related sound and to turn down the
engine and opponent sounds if needed. Listen to the videos
I've created and you can hear tire noises in all of them
(F1C99-02 you only hear them at slow speed though, I
didn't turn down the engine noise).

For GPL, I use an alternate, quieter sound for the engine
when hot lapping, but then switch to a louder one if I'm
going to convert a replay into a video.

by **jason moye** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 02:28:48

> You sure make a lot of noise for being uninterested JM.

I make a lot of noise about GPL?

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 02:50:27

About your dislike of any ISI stuff. If ya dont like it fine but comparing
it to GP4??? To me thats just noise ;)

Mitch

>> You sure make a lot of noise for being uninterested JM.

> I make a lot of noise about GPL?

by **Tony Rickar** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 02:56:26

> Actually, I drive without force feedback. Somehow Papy sims and even
> RBR with its incredibly basic***pit view manage to convey the
> information I need to feel in control of the car without having some
> over-exaggerated motorized wheel in my hands. I've never felt truly in
> control of the car in ISI sims. *shrug* I think the "feel" being
> conveyed by the***pit is much better in rFactor than anything they've
> done previously, but the sound is totally useless.

Interesting as I have only recently taken to FF (DFPro), so I consider
myself bought up on graphical and audible cues for "feel" rather than
anything through the steering wheel. Going way way back with my first
real racing sim (Indy 500) I didn't have a sound card so I just used
graphical cues. I think graphics is my primary input.

For me this is the first ISI sim to have that feel that matches or even
surpasses Papy sims. I don't have an issue with the sound as an input to
car behaviour. Maybe it is because I started this sim with FFB and the
FFB helps a lot such that I have retrained my old brain...

Cheers
Tony

by **Sidney H Bridg** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:15:56

<SNIP>

Revs (Geoff Crammond) was the first real racing sim.

by **Sidney H Bridg** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:18:37

>> Well, to go one up on rFactor they'll need to have weather for starters.

> rFactor has weather?

Yes. Sunny or cloudy. No rain, though - yet!

by **Tony Rickar** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:19:54

> Ive seen all kinds in here over the last decade but comparing GP4 to rFactor
> takes the grand prize.

> Even ymenards self proclaimed presidency of ras looks sane by comparison,
> hehe.

Although I see Jason's point that GP4 was a complete F1 package. Fully
working AI, all the tracks, excellent weather and a degree of atmosphere.

rFactor is much more of a tool to build your own package, partly due to
the limited tracks for a championship but mostly due to the AI not being
consistently up to scratch. Initially this is a bit of a disappointment.
However, once online in the OW trainers the disappointment goes away and
the realisation that all that is needed is the tool for leagues and
modders to do their stuff to complete the package.

rFactor feels a bit lightweight compared to the milestone releases in
the past, yet I believe it will be a milestone in the history of OW sim
racing along with Indy 500, F1GP, ICR, GP2 and GPL on my list at least.

Cheers
Tony

by **Tony Rickar** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:30:40

> <SNIP>

>> Going way way back with my first
>> real racing sim (Indy 500) <SNIP>

> Revs (Geoff Crammond) was the first real racing sim.

Though not *my* first real racing sim...

Indy500 was my introduction to sim racing. I'm either not *that* old or
maybe just a late starter :)

Cheers
Tony

by **jason moye** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:52:56

> About your dislike of any ISI stuff. If ya dont like it fine but comparing
> it to GP4??? To me thats just noise ;)

I simply said GP4 had great AI and realistic tracks, whereas F1C
didn't. I certainly don't rate it higher.

by **jason moye** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:56:18

> A sim? Please tell me you're joking!

So you think Revs was a sim, but GP4 wasn't?

Wtf?

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:57:58

As we get closer to reality the margin between groundbreaking and just
another racing sim has blurred to the point of invisibility. This is one
reason why there can never be another GPL no matter how great the current
sim is.

Mitch

>> Ive seen all kinds in here over the last decade but comparing GP4 to
>> rFactor takes the grand prize.

>> Even ymenards self proclaimed presidency of ras looks sane by comparison,
>> hehe.

> Although I see Jason's point that GP4 was a complete F1 package. Fully
> working AI, all the tracks, excellent weather and a degree of atmosphere.

> rFactor is much more of a tool to build your own package, partly due to
> the limited tracks for a championship but mostly due to the AI not being
> consistently up to scratch. Initially this is a bit of a disappointment.
> However, once online in the OW trainers the disappointment goes away and
> the realisation that all that is needed is the tool for leagues and
> modders to do their stuff to complete the package.

> rFactor feels a bit lightweight compared to the milestone releases in the
> past, yet I believe it will be a milestone in the history of OW sim racing
> along with Indy 500, F1GP, ICR, GP2 and GPL on my list at least.

> Cheers
> Tony

by **jason moye** » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 04:05:38

> Yes. Sunny or cloudy. No rain, though - yet!

So what exactly can it do that you can't do in N2003, weather-wise?

rec.autos.simulators

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