rec.autos.simulators

Some of the people involved with the making of racing sims have recently
stated that the force feedback technology currently available is not
advanced enough to make it worthwhile to include force feedback
capability in upcoming sims.

I'd like to know what the problems are.

After reviewing the documentation available on the I-Force extensions to
DX5, it seems that there should be enough functionality to project the
feel of a cars handling to a force feedback steering wheel through the
use of dynamic inertia effects.  Is the problem simply the computational
power and bandwidth required to continuously update the feedback
dynamically?  

Canned force feedback effects would probably add little to the driving
experience, although feeling things like gear shifts and engine
vibration would probably add to the feeling of immersion in a sim.

It seems that the abilities available in the Hard Drivin'and Hard Racin'
arcade games should be workable on a PC by now!  I haven't had a chance
to try FF on a PC yet, though I should be able to start experimenting
with it in a few weeks.  Can someone who has tried it with F1RS or SODA
comment?

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

Force feedback opinions :-
1) CART from Microsoft is very good
2) POD with the new patch it is excellent
3) F1RS is OK, but there is a new (up to POD standard) patch on the way
4) Ultimate Race PRO is a bit weak - the effects are a lot better in the
demo than the full version.
I am using the Ultimate Per4mer FF Wheel, and I also have the MS Sidewinder
FF PRO.
Hope this helps,
Iain

It sure seems like we should be able to sense things like a loose
condition or wheels locking up under braking with the current
technology.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

Hi That statement about not being worth while is a bunch of junk . I have
the ulitimate performer force feedback Wheel and pedals and with cart
precision it is awesome!! . Everything you want to feel is there , also soda
is great you feel the mud and bumps and one wheel on the mud and one off .
Andretti racing is also very good as is UBI F1 . I have raced these sims
extensivly and It now feels like I am driving a race car not out for a
sunday drive on a smooth expressway sunday jount . Try it youll never go

Believe me Pat, feeling your hands shake when going over rumble strips, and
feeling the effects when you touch a wall or get knocked by another car is
NOT just a novelty. You cannot go back to non FF sims after experiencing the
likes of CART and POD. By the way, the new IForce2 patch for Per4mer FF I
mentioned in my previous post for F1RS has just been released by Ubi, and I
am downloading it now.
you can feel the different tightness of the steering in skid or normal
conditions, and the undulations of the road at times, e.g. the corkscrew at
Laguna Seca in CART PR.
Happy racing!
Iain

On a related subject, some news was leaked out a few days ago that MS
is releasing a Sidewinder Force-Feedback steering wheel device in the
next few months.  You can rip apart MS all you want on the software
and OS side, but their game controllers (not actually made by MS) are
top-notch.  Now I'm sure these wheels won't be great "simulation
controllers" like the ECCI or TSW, but I think they'll be a great
alternative to Thrustmaster products, and when you add the FF to it,
there's nothing like it.  And I'm sure they'll use digital controls as
opposed to analog pots.

Anyone heard what Papy's stance is on FF in their upcoming titles?  I
thought I read that they weren't going to support FF in Nascar3, so
I'm sure GPL is out of the question also.

My point is that those extra effects will be great when present in
addition to the feel of the road (or handling of the car - however you
want to say it).  But, if those extra effects are all there are, then
they won't make that much difference to me.

So is Papy putting FF in GPL or what?

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

I should get to try it in a few more weeks - can't wait!

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

Pat Dotson wrote

AFAIK, not for the moment.  They prefer focus on other things I would
presume.

Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

If they don't put FF into GPL it will be the Crime of the Century!!!!!!  We
finally have a sim worthy of FF and it won't be included?!!  Say it isn't so!!
    Chris

Hi ,Sorry the wheel dosn't work in dos games only windows games and if the
game dosn't have force feedback it has no centering position bummer however
you can use the ultimate Performer in the windows version of ICR2 but no
rendition suport then , . I talked to the manufacture about this and he said
it is up to sierra to get dos mode run in box in windows to work with wheel
. My Favoritate Sim is tetering between ICR2 my alltime favorate and Cart
Precision Racing . For thoses who say Ai is bad in Cart check race
performance on and try to beat the ai cars . I drive A Penske in cart and
just try to beat the others at Michigan It is very tough even in a 30 lap
race . I havent yet beat them even with a very good setup . One little
mistake and boom its over .zThen if you can try dammage and force feedback
wheel and if you still can try putting on the head movement option to
simulate g forces . As you might see I'm not so intetrested in going faster
I'm interested in realism , I want to feel the curbs the bumps , the grass
and the hits from the wall and other cars . Even in the rain the force
feedback effect is awesome it feels real to me and I'm not a kid I'm 47, and
I still think that the Ultimate performer is awesome the ultimate addition
to racing sims !!!! .

Couldn't agree more!
and I'm not a kid I'm 47, and I still think that the Ultimate performer is
awesome the ultimate addition to racing sims !!!! .

On Sat, 02 May 1998 09:50:32 -0400, Chris Rogers

Cheers,
Richard