As for GT3, the force feedback is pretty sorry. You can go in and narrow
the dead zone and increase the linearity to max which will help it some, but
it's still not comparable GPL or NASCAR 4, or even SCGT, for that matter.
I don't think this is the wheel's fault. Console developers just haven't
been in the business of giving simulation quality force feedback in this
fledgling enterprise. Give them a little more time. I'm hoping for better
in F1 2001, but I've already heard that it's pretty much token force
feedback. There are some adjustments to it, but not enough to achieve the
desired results. Still, it's better than the force feedback in the PC
version of F1 2001... ie. not at all!
F-355 Challenge on the Dreamcast is still the only console racer that
delivers a simulation feel with solid racing action. I know it can be done
on the PS2, it's just a matter of someone stepping up to the plate and
delivering.
John Cauthen
Logitech Driving Force for PS2 (the blue one). Can the wheel make any
difference? The FF feels kind of weird. The resistance is never continuous.
The motors are turning either on or off.
But it's not real FF, only rumble.
Apparently, this is exactly what it feels like if you model
the tyres realistically. You need mu (friction) values
around 2.0 to make it "feel" right; witness also the 'realistic'
tyres in GT2.
Jonny
And what a fine job they did! - Vanishing Point has the best feeling of road
contact I've ever experienced in a game. In fact I think that the physics
on the whole leave games like Gran Turismo 2,3 in the dust. Although it has
a legion of fans, it's still one of the most underrated games ever. I don't
suppose anyone has any details on the sequel i.e. is it coming to X-box or
PS2? VP is in my personal top 5 games for the last 20 years.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that F-355 for the DC has force feedback...
clearly it does not. I don't even have rumble packs for my Dreamcast. What
I meant by simulation "feel" in this sense was the way the car handles.
I've yet to see force feedback on any console that compares to GPL or NASCAR
4 on the PC.
John
It can, although with the force feedback I've seen thus far on the PS2
racers which support it, I don't think it's enough to amount to anything.
What you are describing is the fault of the game software, not the wheel or
the PS2. The MOMO might give you a noticable improvement in feel because of
its higher quality coupling mechanics, but it won't control what the
program's telling it to do. The same LWF GP that leaves me with the same
feeling you describe above in GT3, is much more satisfying in NASCAR 4
(although I still don't like the "gritty" feel of the gear driven feedback).
At least with the Driving Force, you've got paddle shifters! The buttons on
the GP are very hard to find when road course racing in N4, or racing in
GPL.
John
..tom
Stephen
Just using it as a target for my own sim mainly though (in graphics,
not physics).
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
> >The thing that killed GT3 for me was the behaviour of the cars in the
air.
> Haven't seen that yet. :)
> When driving cars on the limit; you get to the limit of adhesion.
> Hence, you're then more floating on, sliding on ice, what you will.
> Correct behavior, isn't it?
> Anyway, haven't played it too much yet, but jeez I love the replays!
> :)
> Just using it as a target for my own sim mainly though (in graphics,
> not physics).
I wasn't referring to the sliding behaviour of the cars. I agree that at
the limit, and on the ground, you get this dancing on ice feel. So, the GT3
cars are fine as long as you have all four wheels on the ground. However,
as soon as you crest a hump at speed, things go to hell. Instead of a
natural jump, like you get in GPL, RallyMasters and even NFS-Porsche, you
get this absolutely bizarre instant wheelie. I've had a Celica rally car
stand right up on its tail on the Smoky Mountain circuit at the jump after
the S/F, despite purposely hammering the brakes just before the crest.
Experience from real-world driving and hours of GPL and RallyMasters
dictates that the car should certainly not rotate backwards, and especially
not until the thing is vertical! I think it's a bizarre bug with the
downforce.
Stephen
At least nothing to the extreme that you are talking about
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:39:10 +0100, "Stephen Ferguson"
> > >The thing that killed GT3 for me was the behaviour of the cars in the
> air.
> > Haven't seen that yet. :)
> > When driving cars on the limit; you get to the limit of adhesion.
> > Hence, you're then more floating on, sliding on ice, what you will.
> > Correct behavior, isn't it?
> > Anyway, haven't played it too much yet, but jeez I love the replays!
> > :)
> > Just using it as a target for my own sim mainly though (in graphics,
> > not physics).
> Hi Ruud,
> I wasn't referring to the sliding behaviour of the cars. I agree that at
> the limit, and on the ground, you get this dancing on ice feel. So, the
GT3
> cars are fine as long as you have all four wheels on the ground. However,
> as soon as you crest a hump at speed, things go to hell. Instead of a
> natural jump, like you get in GPL, RallyMasters and even NFS-Porsche, you
> get this absolutely bizarre instant wheelie. I've had a Celica rally car
> stand right up on its tail on the Smoky Mountain circuit at the jump after
> the S/F, despite purposely hammering the brakes just before the crest.
> Experience from real-world driving and hours of GPL and RallyMasters
> dictates that the car should certainly not rotate backwards, and
especially
> not until the thing is vertical! I think it's a bizarre bug with the
> downforce.
> Stephen
Stephen
> At least nothing to the extreme that you are talking about
> > > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:39:10 +0100, "Stephen Ferguson"
> > > >The thing that killed GT3 for me was the behaviour of the cars in the
> > air.
> > > Haven't seen that yet. :)
> > > When driving cars on the limit; you get to the limit of adhesion.
> > > Hence, you're then more floating on, sliding on ice, what you will.
> > > Correct behavior, isn't it?
> > > Anyway, haven't played it too much yet, but jeez I love the replays!
> > > :)
> > > Just using it as a target for my own sim mainly though (in graphics,
> > > not physics).
> > Hi Ruud,
> > I wasn't referring to the sliding behaviour of the cars. I agree that
at
> > the limit, and on the ground, you get this dancing on ice feel. So, the
> GT3
> > cars are fine as long as you have all four wheels on the ground.
However,
> > as soon as you crest a hump at speed, things go to hell. Instead of a
> > natural jump, like you get in GPL, RallyMasters and even NFS-Porsche,
you
> > get this absolutely bizarre instant wheelie. I've had a Celica rally
car
> > stand right up on its tail on the Smoky Mountain circuit at the jump
after
> > the S/F, despite purposely hammering the brakes just before the crest.
> > Experience from real-world driving and hours of GPL and RallyMasters
> > dictates that the car should certainly not rotate backwards, and
> especially
> > not until the thing is vertical! I think it's a bizarre bug with the
> > downforce.
> > Stephen
>> >The thing that killed GT3 for me was the behaviour of the cars in the
>air.
...
>I wasn't referring to the sliding behaviour of the cars. I agree that at
>the limit, and on the ground, you get this dancing on ice feel.
Hammering the brakes JUST before a jump will mean the front suspension
is pressed, and if you let go again you get a pitching moment which
will send your car's front up. Depending a bit on when you brake and
when you release though.
Hehe, cool. Perhaps they saw too many videos where F1 cars would fly
backwards. Perhaps they had an equation wrong (one negative sign can
really***everything up).
I'll see if I can get the same behavior.
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim : http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Pencil art : http://www.racesimcentral.net/
