rec.autos.simulators

Well, at Zandvoort I know that it's 50% sand, so it's not that slippery!

But normal grass is hard to drive on!
So don't try that at home :-)

Bart

  The grass in GPL is roughly equal to driving on ice.  To me, it seems
almost too slippery.  However, I have no experience in a real race car.  I
know there's a few of you in this ng that have actually raced.  If you
have, please let us know how it compares.
  Also, it almost seems like the grass is slicker than the loose dirt.  I
routinely drop a wheel into the dirt at Kyalami with no ill effects.  But
if I just barely touch grass, whammo, I'm going in circles.  I can think
of arguments both for and against this, but I have no real experince to
make a judgement here either.

-Bill
--
Bill Mette      | "A person is smart.  People are dumb."
MCSNet, Chicago |                        - K MiB

Trust me, there is almost nothing as slippery as grass.

Marty

It's been a few years(let's see... '98 - '73... ouch!), but grass is
slippery as snot when you're at (or near)the edge while cornering.  Raced a
FF(Formula Ford) for 3 yrs in the Midwest at tracks like Gratton Mich., S.
Beloit, Ill.(Blackhawk Farms), & State Fair Park(Milwaukee Mile, but we used
only part of the oval, the rest was an infield circuit). Even got to try a
race at Elkhart Lake, Wis., but only practiced(engine probs).  Plain dirt
wasn't as bad, 'cause you dug in a little, instead of just planing across
the grass (yeah, I did that alot at first, & never really got good enough to
not do it at all).

Also, I noticed that if the grass adjoining the track was higher than the
pavement, it wasn't nearly as bad as when the grass was lower (almost all
newer pavement surfaces were higher than the grass), sorta like a berm in
motocross. Wonder if Papy modeled the difference?

Personal observation: The car I had, a Lola (202 I think), was built in
1969, & was very similar to the cars in GPL(only about 115 hp, tho), no
wings, etc. & Papyrus has done an amazing job recreating the feel of a race
car.  For those who complain about how difficult the game is, remember that
racing is not easy, & the feeling of satisfaction one gets from finally
getting just one turn right, is worth all the time & effort spent just to
get there.

Brian
(remove ns to reply)

Wet grass?  :)

Gian Vitzthum

I would agree that the grass always seems wet!

My main beef, however, is that traction with 2 wheels still on the pavement
is not as good as it should be...  It should be possible to 'save' a spin
when putting 1 or 2 wheels off by using very sensitive input of throttle and
steering to get the car settled and back on the track, as in real life
situations..

=rez=

You CAN do this, quite easily (I am not so good a driver that I haven't lots
of opportunity to try it!!).  I think the traction differences of the
various surfaces (asphalt, grass, gravel traps, sandy grass, etc.) are
phenomenally well done.  If you truly want slippery grass, try CART:PR.  Its
grass is like ice with a very slight snow covering.  If you want grass like
glue, try pre 1.09 F1RS.  If you want grass like slightly hardened glue, try
F1RS 1.09.  GPL has the best off-road traction simulation yet...by far.

Marc.

Finding a more forgiving setting for the ramp angles and clutches
will make it easier to avoid spinning in this situation.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

% I would agree that the grass always seems wet!

% My main beef, however, is that traction with 2 wheels still on the pavement
% is not as good as it should be...  It should be possible to 'save' a spin
% when putting 1 or 2 wheels off by using very sensitive input of throttle and
% steering to get the car settled and back on the track, as in real life
% situations..

It's been my experience in GPL, that this is possible, but you can't
breath while attempting it.  But, you have to be sensitive in your
"output" of throttle not input.  Let up ever so slightly so as not to
get more grip from the wheels on the track (which will then spin you
around).  The not breathing part is to keep from turning the wheel too
much as you "will" the car back on the track.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Grass with frost on it? :)

The thing is with those cars, that the engine puts the power to the
wheel with the least resistence. So if one wheel is on the grass and the
other is on the pavement, almost all power is suddenly moved to the
wheel on the grass, thus causing you to spin.

// Johan

It seems to me that the grass is more forgiving in GPL than in say,
GP2, where touching a tire off is notorious for forcing you into a
spin. In GPL I've actually been able to wildly go off the track onto
the grass and then recover,, which is a nice change.
It is slippery, don't get me wrong,,,,but it seems like it's done much
better.

Rae

writes

I do not have GPL yet ( I'm in the UK ) but I do have lots of experience
of driving on grass because I live on a dairy farm! To get to the point.
Yes, grass is VERY slippery, usually more so than loose dirt, not quite
as bad as ice though.

Your observations in GPL are consistant with real life, I think.

Can't wait to confirm this myself!
--
Richard Cowl

Well I've never done any racing, so I probably don't know, but I do have a
thought...

1st, you've got all these blades which are fairly slippery to begin with.  2nd,
they are filled with water.  When the tires hit the grass & spin, this ruptures
the cells & tears up the blades, releasing that water all over the place. It
gets on the tires, on the ground, & makes things even more slippery.  Then
there's the torn-up bits of loose grass on the ground & sticking to the tires.
Not exactly ideal for traction...

I'm not saying this is simulated in the game, just that that's what happens if
you spin your tires on real grass.  I rode dirt bikes as a ***ager, and I
could go a hell of a lot faster on loose dirt than on fresh grass.

Lee

Remove the "X" to email

I agree. I think there's two basic factors with grass as a contact
surface, or with any surface for that matter. They are grip and
resistance. Grass is high resistance low grip and asphalt is low
resistance high grip.

Gp2 IMO overplays grass's resistance way too much. So that when you're
half on grass and half on asphalt the resulting rotational forces are
too  great. You shouldn't be ***ly rotated towards the grass
simply because you've touched  one sides' wheels on it. To some extent
yes but Gp2 is too much.

In Gp2 if you get half on the grass you must lift off the acelerator
fast and turn more towrds the grass run-off area to minimise the
rotaional forces. Once you're fully on the grass its actually a bit
easier to control than when half on and half off.

GPL feels better than Gp2 in this respect IMHO.

Phillip McNelley.