rec.autos.simulators

        JJR

            Rear [//////red line///   |                        ] Front

Is this Rear bias or front bias???

Thanks.
Jay Davis

It depends on what you want the car to do.  If you have rear brake bias,
the back tires will have better braking ability than the front.

That means if you jump on the brakes real hard, the rear wheels will have
a tendancy to lock up.  This CAN be good in some circumstances.  For
example on the tight street courses you can actually use the rear wheels
to help turn the car (oversteer).  This is similar to doing a hand-brake
turn.

If the bias is to the front, the front tires will have a tendancy to lock
up before the rears.  This means that you will lose front end traction
because a locked tire will not help you turn.

There is a compromise (sp?) between having front and rear brake bias.  If
you go too much rear, the oversteer will prevent you from making a clean
getaway from a corner because the wheels won't get a good bite.  If you
have too much front bias, the car will push because of the locked tire thing.

:             Rear [//////red line///   |                        ] Front

: Is this Rear bias or front bias???

The display you show here is rear brake bias.

When you have a heavy fuel load (ie full) the rear brake bias will be a
bad thing because the heavier car will oversteer more than a light one.  
If you have a front brake bias the heavier car will push/oversteer really
bad.

So I'm sure that will clear things up for you.  :)

If it matters to you, ALL of my cars have rear brake bias.  With Q tires
the bias is between 0 and 12R.  For C tires on a full fuel load, the
bias is between 5R and 10R.  It all depends on what track it is and if
I'm braking from high speeds or not.

Thanks for the response Doug.  BTW I played around with setups from the
fastest laps info.  A friend of mine and I are going through a championship
season together.  I had been putting my brake bias to the front at like 17!  
Needless to say I kept getting understeer!  Anyway,  my buddy is real
consistent and I really hang it out.  He also has a tendency to bump me off
the track in the first lap ( I always beat him to the first bend)  Anyway at
Brazil I had a fast lap of 1:28:xx during the race.  I had wing settings of
38/28 for this race.  So, after downloading the fastest laps I set my car up
with 64/38.  I run a test  race without my friend.  I do a fast lap of 1:18!  
Then look at the list and see that this is good.  My friend is at a meeting in
Dallas.  Imola is next.  I think I'll forget to mention anything about the new
setups.  Since he has 20 points and I have 14:)  This is going to be V E R Y
funny......

The brake bias should be toward the front, when braking, the majority of
weight is transferred toward the front, hence the front does most of the
braking. It should be -1 or -2 from the top. Which record times use 5
brake bias??
Later,
 Darrel
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In ICR maybe, but the 05R we're talking about sounds like F1GP/WC
setup sfrom the HOF.  F1GP plays better with rear bias, giving a bit
of oversteer which makes cornering harder but faster.

Perhaps Doug or Rene could elaborate?

-- Gizmo van der HOF

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Giz:
Are you _really_ on this side of the Atlantic?  If so, for how long?

Rene

When I started racing F1GP I had no pre-conceptions of what I needed for
my setup. I very quickly settled into a rear bias with a front wing bias.
This helps me round corners by giving me the ability to control oversteer
by the throttle. Also I seem to stop more quickly then with a front bias.
I start with a rough bias of R5 for the brakes. The more I add the more
likely I am to spin off under heavy braking. Therefore I tend to get to the
right speed before cornering. As far as wings go all I can say is
experimentation <sp?>.

I won't claim to be the fastest driver (not after I saw the HOF) but I can
get a good 1-3 seconds faster on every track than the computer cars, and
average in the middle of the HOF tables on the tracks I have driven.

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Yes it does.  

What we are talking about here is a rear brake bias of maybe 12R at the
most.  I've done 15R with not much trouble.   The range in the game is 0
to 32R.  Try a brake bias of 30R and see what happens.

: So, put your bias to the rear and don't step on the brakes until the last  
: second!! :)

Absolutely correct!!  :)

Gordon is correct about the car stopping faster with rear bias...for those
of you who know anything about real racing, however, you will realize
that this is silly..Real racers do have a bit more bias to the front
to keep the rear tires from breaking away during HEAVY braking.  With the
loads placed on a speeding car during a race, rear tires locking up are
almost a guaranteed spin.

Strangely enough, F1GP doesn't work this way..it was one of the main reasons
my times were very slow when I first got the game since all my bias was
to the front.  I suspect the physics model of F1GP is reading that the rear
tires have more grip (due to their larger contact patch) and therefore they
tend to stop the car faster.  The model, however, doesn't realize that
the rear end should be swapping itself with the front in these conditions.

So, put your bias to the rear and don't step on the brakes until the last  
second!! :)

--StabnSteer

Okay...okay....30 to the rear is a real treat!!! :)

--StabnSteer