rec.autos.simulators

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

Glen

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Glen » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 12:54:53

I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable and that
it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I select D3D
w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on average!)
than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal - including turning
AA off when running in OPENGL).

So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run in....however,
anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D was an
early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is there
something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.

If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can do to
ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?

Any help appreciated.

Glen

Don Burnett

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Don Burnett » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:00:58

That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You running in
16 bit color?
For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL Hal
they are in the 30's.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


Glen

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Glen » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:18:29

Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D w/TnL was,
I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on for OPENGL
to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN GL will,
by default, use TnL.

Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use AA w/D3d
in Nascar 4?

Glen

btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running in
1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's


>That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You running
in
>16 bit color?
>For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL Hal
>they are in the 30's.

>--
>Don Burnette
>D Burnette in N4

>Some people do nothing wrong.
>The problem is, they do nothing.
>And THAT is wrong.



>> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
>> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable and
that
>> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I select
>D3D
>> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on average!)
>> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal - including
>turning
>> AA off when running in OPENGL).

>> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
in....however,
>> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D was an
>> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is there
>> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.

>> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can do to
>> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?

>> Any help appreciated.

>> Glen

Double

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Double » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:22:26

I'm see simular results... but my frame rate drops to below 10 on major
wrecks, especially on small tracks.  Also you get some additional special
effects under the OpenGL setting.  While on it... I'm sure someone has
mention this already... The graphics seems to be cleaner or non blurrie
compared to the D3D drivers.  I had a bear of a time to get the D3D to
work... my problem was that I was running DUAL MONITORS. I had to disable
monitor 2 while playing the game ;)


> That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You running
in
> 16 bit color?
> For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL Hal
> they are in the 30's.

> --
> Don Burnette
> D Burnette in N4

> Some people do nothing wrong.
> The problem is, they do nothing.
> And THAT is wrong.



> > I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
> > drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable and
that
> > it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I select
> D3D
> > w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on average!)
> > than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal - including
> turning
> > AA off when running in OPENGL).

> > So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
in....however,
> > anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D was
an
> > early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is there
> > something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.

> > If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can do
to
> > ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?

> > Any help appreciated.

> > Glen

Don Burnett

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Don Burnett » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:27:18

Open GL does indeed automatically take advantage of the hardware TnL.
My Open GL settings are as follows:

Use desktop color depth ( mine is 16 bit)
Buffer flipping mode: Auto Select
Vertical Synch: Always Off
FSAA: No antialiasing

In the performance and capability options:

Enable buffer region extension: Checked
Allow dual planes extension to use local video memory: Checked
Use fast linear-mipmaplinear-filtering : Checked
All the rest unchecked.

I also run in 1024x768.

No idea about about the aliasing issue with D3d, I have tried it on all
settings, don't really see a difference on the screen or in framerates.
--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


> Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D w/TnL
was,
> I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on for OPENGL
> to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN GL will,
> by default, use TnL.

> Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use AA
w/D3d
> in Nascar 4?

> Glen

> btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running in
> 1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's



> >That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You running
> in
> >16 bit color?
> >For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL Hal
> >they are in the 30's.

> >--
> >Don Burnette
> >D Burnette in N4

> >Some people do nothing wrong.
> >The problem is, they do nothing.
> >And THAT is wrong.



> >> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
> >> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable and
> that
> >> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I select
> >D3D
> >> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
average!)
> >> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal - including
> >turning
> >> AA off when running in OPENGL).

> >> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
> in....however,
> >> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D was
an
> >> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is there
> >> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.

> >> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can do
to
> >> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?

> >> Any help appreciated.

> >> Glen

Don Burnett

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Don Burnett » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:36:20

Yeah, now in major wrecks, with mulitple cars involved, my framerate will
drop way down as well.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


> I'm see simular results... but my frame rate drops to below 10 on major
> wrecks, especially on small tracks.  Also you get some additional special
> effects under the OpenGL setting.  While on it... I'm sure someone has
> mention this already... The graphics seems to be cleaner or non blurrie
> compared to the D3D drivers.  I had a bear of a time to get the D3D to
> work... my problem was that I was running DUAL MONITORS. I had to disable
> monitor 2 while playing the game ;)



> > That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You
running
> in
> > 16 bit color?
> > For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL Hal
> > they are in the 30's.

> > --
> > Don Burnette
> > D Burnette in N4

> > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > And THAT is wrong.



> > > I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
> > > drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable and
> that
> > > it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I
select
> > D3D
> > > w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
average!)
> > > than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal - including
> > turning
> > > AA off when running in OPENGL).

> > > So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
> in....however,
> > > anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D was
> an
> > > early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is
there
> > > something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.

> > > If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can do
> to
> > > ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?

> > > Any help appreciated.

> > > Glen

Simon Brow

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Simon Brow » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:50:56

Maybe all these guys had selected the non-TnL D3D renderer?  That's just a
wild guess though.  I don't have N4 yet to test, but with the demo, I also
found D3D to be faster.  The GF2 should be faster in OpenGL.

As for AA, try some of the other modes maybe?


Thom j

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Thom j » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:22:27

Don this was great help for me!! Would you know the settings to put into the
Driect3D section too as you did for OpenGL?? Tia.. Thom_j.


| Open GL does indeed automatically take advantage of the hardware TnL.
| My Open GL settings are as follows:
|
| Use desktop color depth ( mine is 16 bit)
| Buffer flipping mode: Auto Select
| Vertical Synch: Always Off
| FSAA: No antialiasing
|
| In the performance and capability options:
|
| Enable buffer region extension: Checked
| Allow dual planes extension to use local video memory: Checked
| Use fast linear-mipmaplinear-filtering : Checked
| All the rest unchecked.
|
| I also run in 1024x768.
|
| No idea about about the aliasing issue with D3d, I have tried it on all
| settings, don't really see a difference on the screen or in framerates.
| --
| Don Burnette
| D Burnette in N4
|
| Some people do nothing wrong.
| The problem is, they do nothing.
| And THAT is wrong.
|

| > Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D w/TnL
| was,
| > I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on for
OPENGL
| > to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN GL
will,
| > by default, use TnL.
| >
| > Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use AA
| w/D3d
| > in Nascar 4?
| >
| > Glen
| >
| > btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running in
| > 1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's
| >


| > >That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You
running
| > in
| > >16 bit color?
| > >For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL
Hal
| > >they are in the 30's.
| > >
| > >--
| > >Don Burnette
| > >D Burnette in N4
| > >
| > >Some people do nothing wrong.
| > >The problem is, they do nothing.
| > >And THAT is wrong.
| > >


| > >> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
| > >> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable and
| > that
| > >> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I
select
| > >D3D
| > >> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
| average!)
| > >> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal - including
| > >turning
| > >> AA off when running in OPENGL).
| > >>
| > >> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
| > in....however,
| > >> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D
was
| an
| > >> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is
there
| > >> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.
| > >>
| > >> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can
do
| to
| > >> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?
| > >>
| > >> Any help appreciated.
| > >>
| > >> Glen
| > >>
| > >>
| > >>
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|

Thom j

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Thom j » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:07:14

Don I followed you instruction below for OpenGL. Here is what I found in
"Daytona night".... Alone in testing turns 1&3 = 90-94fps 2&3= 70-75fps.
I guess the lower fps in 2&3 as the stands came into view?
In a 21car race at the back of the pack at start 30-35fps after moving into
the start flag up to 45-49fps & finally racing several laps consistantly in
the
50fps depending on how many cars around me. Car draw 8 front 4 back!
I will test the same with D3d later as this is what I was using but it seems
OpenGL is the better of the 2?...Thanx Again.. Thom_j.
PC Specs:
Pent III 800mhz CPU, Abit SA6R mo'board, 256megs of PC133Dram,
Asus V7700 64mb GeForce2 Pro video card,  Twin Voodoo2 cards in
SLI, Three-30gig Hardrives, ViewSonic PS790 20" Monitor, Quillemot
FF Ferrari Race Wheel and Quillemot FF Joystick..


| Open GL does indeed automatically take advantage of the hardware TnL.
| My Open GL settings are as follows:
|
| Use desktop color depth ( mine is 16 bit)
| Buffer flipping mode: Auto Select
| Vertical Synch: Always Off
| FSAA: No antialiasing
|
| In the performance and capability options:
|
| Enable buffer region extension: Checked
| Allow dual planes extension to use local video memory: Checked
| Use fast linear-mipmaplinear-filtering : Checked
| All the rest unchecked.
|
| I also run in 1024x768.
|
| No idea about about the aliasing issue with D3d, I have tried it on all
| settings, don't really see a difference on the screen or in framerates.
| --
| Don Burnette
| D Burnette in N4
|
| Some people do nothing wrong.
| The problem is, they do nothing.
| And THAT is wrong.
|

| > Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D w/TnL
| was,
| > I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on for
OPENGL
| > to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN GL
will,
| > by default, use TnL.
| >
| > Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use AA
| w/D3d
| > in Nascar 4?
| >
| > Glen
| >
| > btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running in
| > 1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's
| >


| > >That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You
running
| > in
| > >16 bit color?
| > >For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL
Hal
| > >they are in the 30's.
| > >
| > >--
| > >Don Burnette
| > >D Burnette in N4
| > >
| > >Some people do nothing wrong.
| > >The problem is, they do nothing.
| > >And THAT is wrong.
| > >


| > >> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
| > >> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable and
| > that
| > >> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I
select
| > >D3D
| > >> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
| average!)
| > >> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal - including
| > >turning
| > >> AA off when running in OPENGL).
| > >>
| > >> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
| > in....however,
| > >> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D
was
| an
| > >> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is
there
| > >> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.
| > >>
| > >> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can
do
| to
| > >> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?
| > >>
| > >> Any help appreciated.
| > >>
| > >> Glen
| > >>
| > >>
| > >>
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|

Marc Collin

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Marc Collin » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:59:20

Identical experience here with 6.50 drivers.  No FSAA.  Faster and clearer
in D3D.  However, frame rates still drop to single digits with a full field
if there is a big accident.

I am actually running at 1600 x 1200 and still see way too many jaggies.
OpenGL phases in clarity as you approach an object--just like in GPL.  You
would expect higher frame rates since it is drawing less detail at a
distance, but it doesn't work that way on my system.  I hate the look of
that in GPL and N4, so I am not worried that D3D is running faster here.

FYI, I got an extra 3 - 6 fps when I upgraded from DX 7.0a to 8.0a.

Marc.


Don Burnett

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Don Burnett » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 02:02:34

Sure, here is what I have

Under D3D:
Enable fog table emulations: Checked
Adjust Z Buffer depth to rendering depth if unequal: Checked
Enable alternate depth buffereing: Unchecked
Display logo when running d3d: Unchecked

Mipmapping detail level: Blend
PCI texture memory size : 15 mb

Under More D3D
Texel alignment value: 3
Vertical Synch: Always Off
Render no more than 0 frames ahead

Then under the antialiasing tab: Off

Hope this help,

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


> Don this was great help for me!! Would you know the settings to put into
the
> Driect3D section too as you did for OpenGL?? Tia.. Thom_j.



> | Open GL does indeed automatically take advantage of the hardware TnL.
> | My Open GL settings are as follows:
> |
> | Use desktop color depth ( mine is 16 bit)
> | Buffer flipping mode: Auto Select
> | Vertical Synch: Always Off
> | FSAA: No antialiasing
> |
> | In the performance and capability options:
> |
> | Enable buffer region extension: Checked
> | Allow dual planes extension to use local video memory: Checked
> | Use fast linear-mipmaplinear-filtering : Checked
> | All the rest unchecked.
> |
> | I also run in 1024x768.
> |
> | No idea about about the aliasing issue with D3d, I have tried it on all
> | settings, don't really see a difference on the screen or in framerates.
> | --
> | Don Burnette
> | D Burnette in N4
> |
> | Some people do nothing wrong.
> | The problem is, they do nothing.
> | And THAT is wrong.
> |


> | > Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D w/TnL
> | was,
> | > I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on for
> OPENGL
> | > to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN GL
> will,
> | > by default, use TnL.
> | >
> | > Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use AA
> | w/D3d
> | > in Nascar 4?
> | >
> | > Glen
> | >
> | > btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running in
> | > 1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's
> | >


> | > >That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You
> running
> | > in
> | > >16 bit color?
> | > >For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL
> Hal
> | > >they are in the 30's.
> | > >
> | > >--
> | > >Don Burnette
> | > >D Burnette in N4
> | > >
> | > >Some people do nothing wrong.
> | > >The problem is, they do nothing.
> | > >And THAT is wrong.
> | > >


> | > >> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
> | > >> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable
and
> | > that
> | > >> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I
> select
> | > >D3D
> | > >> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
> | average!)
> | > >> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal -
including
> | > >turning
> | > >> AA off when running in OPENGL).
> | > >>
> | > >> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
> | > in....however,
> | > >> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D
> was
> | an
> | > >> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is
> there
> | > >> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.
> | > >>
> | > >> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can
> do
> | to
> | > >> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?
> | > >>
> | > >> Any help appreciated.
> | > >>
> | > >> Glen
> | > >>
> | > >>
> | > >>
> | > >
> | > >
> | >
> | >
> |
> |

Don Burnett

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Don Burnett » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 02:04:51

Yes, Open GL should be the better performance wise of the 2. Some folks tend
to prefer the d3d image, I personally can't tell a lot of difference in the
2 image wise, but get much better performance using Open GL.
And yes, at most tracks your frame rate will be the worse going down the
frontstretch with everying it has to draw.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


> Don I followed you instruction below for OpenGL. Here is what I found in
> "Daytona night".... Alone in testing turns 1&3 = 90-94fps 2&3= 70-75fps.
> I guess the lower fps in 2&3 as the stands came into view?
> In a 21car race at the back of the pack at start 30-35fps after moving
into
> the start flag up to 45-49fps & finally racing several laps consistantly
in
> the
> 50fps depending on how many cars around me. Car draw 8 front 4 back!
> I will test the same with D3d later as this is what I was using but it
seems
> OpenGL is the better of the 2?...Thanx Again.. Thom_j.
> PC Specs:
> Pent III 800mhz CPU, Abit SA6R mo'board, 256megs of PC133Dram,
> Asus V7700 64mb GeForce2 Pro video card,  Twin Voodoo2 cards in
> SLI, Three-30gig Hardrives, ViewSonic PS790 20" Monitor, Quillemot
> FF Ferrari Race Wheel and Quillemot FF Joystick..



> | Open GL does indeed automatically take advantage of the hardware TnL.
> | My Open GL settings are as follows:
> |
> | Use desktop color depth ( mine is 16 bit)
> | Buffer flipping mode: Auto Select
> | Vertical Synch: Always Off
> | FSAA: No antialiasing
> |
> | In the performance and capability options:
> |
> | Enable buffer region extension: Checked
> | Allow dual planes extension to use local video memory: Checked
> | Use fast linear-mipmaplinear-filtering : Checked
> | All the rest unchecked.
> |
> | I also run in 1024x768.
> |
> | No idea about about the aliasing issue with D3d, I have tried it on all
> | settings, don't really see a difference on the screen or in framerates.
> | --
> | Don Burnette
> | D Burnette in N4
> |
> | Some people do nothing wrong.
> | The problem is, they do nothing.
> | And THAT is wrong.
> |


> | > Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D w/TnL
> | was,
> | > I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on for
> OPENGL
> | > to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN GL
> will,
> | > by default, use TnL.
> | >
> | > Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use AA
> | w/D3d
> | > in Nascar 4?
> | >
> | > Glen
> | >
> | > btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running in
> | > 1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's
> | >


> | > >That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You
> running
> | > in
> | > >16 bit color?
> | > >For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d w/TnL
> Hal
> | > >they are in the 30's.
> | > >
> | > >--
> | > >Don Burnette
> | > >D Burnette in N4
> | > >
> | > >Some people do nothing wrong.
> | > >The problem is, they do nothing.
> | > >And THAT is wrong.
> | > >


> | > >> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using 6.5?
> | > >> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable
and
> | > that
> | > >> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I
> select
> | > >D3D
> | > >> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
> | average!)
> | > >> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal -
including
> | > >turning
> | > >> AA off when running in OPENGL).
> | > >>
> | > >> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
> | > in....however,
> | > >> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with D3D
> was
> | an
> | > >> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is
> there
> | > >> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display control.
> | > >>
> | > >> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I can
> do
> | to
> | > >> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?
> | > >>
> | > >> Any help appreciated.
> | > >>
> | > >> Glen
> | > >>
> | > >>
> | > >>
> | > >
> | > >
> | >
> | >
> |
> |

Thom j

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Thom j » Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:46:44

Thanx again Don, I would have replied sooner but my dumb *New*
cable modem went down again... Grrrrrr ;o( Now I a demanding all
new hardware from my cable company & they better get their butts
out here fast too! I've got some serious n4, gpl and sbk2001 online
racin' to do!! hahahaha... Anyway thanx again Don!!
Cheers Thom_j.


| Sure, here is what I have
|
| Under D3D:
| Enable fog table emulations: Checked
| Adjust Z Buffer depth to rendering depth if unequal: Checked
| Enable alternate depth buffereing: Unchecked
| Display logo when running d3d: Unchecked
|
| Mipmapping detail level: Blend
| PCI texture memory size : 15 mb
|
| Under More D3D
| Texel alignment value: 3
| Vertical Synch: Always Off
| Render no more than 0 frames ahead
|
| Then under the antialiasing tab: Off
|
| Hope this help,
|
| --
| Don Burnette
| D Burnette in N4
|
| Some people do nothing wrong.
| The problem is, they do nothing.
| And THAT is wrong.
|


| > Don this was great help for me!! Would you know the settings to put into
| the
| > Driect3D section too as you did for OpenGL?? Tia.. Thom_j.
| >


| > | Open GL does indeed automatically take advantage of the hardware TnL.
| > | My Open GL settings are as follows:
| > |
| > | Use desktop color depth ( mine is 16 bit)
| > | Buffer flipping mode: Auto Select
| > | Vertical Synch: Always Off
| > | FSAA: No antialiasing
| > |
| > | In the performance and capability options:
| > |
| > | Enable buffer region extension: Checked
| > | Allow dual planes extension to use local video memory: Checked
| > | Use fast linear-mipmaplinear-filtering : Checked
| > | All the rest unchecked.
| > |
| > | I also run in 1024x768.
| > |
| > | No idea about about the aliasing issue with D3d, I have tried it on
all
| > | settings, don't really see a difference on the screen or in
framerates.
| > | --
| > | Don Burnette
| > | D Burnette in N4
| > |
| > | Some people do nothing wrong.
| > | The problem is, they do nothing.
| > | And THAT is wrong.
| > |


| > | > Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D
w/TnL
| > | was,
| > | > I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on for
| > OPENGL
| > | > to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN GL
| > will,
| > | > by default, use TnL.
| > | >
| > | > Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use
AA
| > | w/D3d
| > | > in Nascar 4?
| > | >
| > | > Glen
| > | >
| > | > btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running
in
| > | > 1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's
| > | >


| > | > >That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You
| > running
| > | > in
| > | > >16 bit color?
| > | > >For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d
w/TnL
| > Hal
| > | > >they are in the 30's.
| > | > >
| > | > >--
| > | > >Don Burnette
| > | > >D Burnette in N4
| > | > >
| > | > >Some people do nothing wrong.
| > | > >The problem is, they do nothing.
| > | > >And THAT is wrong.
| > | > >


| > | > >> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using
6.5?
| > | > >> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is preferable
| and
| > | > that
| > | > >> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when I
| > select
| > | > >D3D
| > | > >> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
| > | average!)
| > | > >> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal -
| including
| > | > >turning
| > | > >> AA off when running in OPENGL).
| > | > >>
| > | > >> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
| > | > in....however,
| > | > >> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with
D3D
| > was
| > | an
| > | > >> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or is
| > there
| > | > >> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display
control.
| > | > >>
| > | > >> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I
can
| > do
| > | to
| > | > >> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?
| > | > >>
| > | > >> Any help appreciated.
| > | > >>
| > | > >> Glen
| > | > >>
| > | > >>
| > | > >>
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

Don Burnett

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Don Burnett » Tue, 27 Feb 2001 02:13:51

Glad to help Thom.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


> Thanx again Don, I would have replied sooner but my dumb *New*
> cable modem went down again... Grrrrrr ;o( Now I a demanding all
> new hardware from my cable company & they better get their butts
> out here fast too! I've got some serious n4, gpl and sbk2001 online
> racin' to do!! hahahaha... Anyway thanx again Don!!
> Cheers Thom_j.



> | Sure, here is what I have
> |
> | Under D3D:
> | Enable fog table emulations: Checked
> | Adjust Z Buffer depth to rendering depth if unequal: Checked
> | Enable alternate depth buffereing: Unchecked
> | Display logo when running d3d: Unchecked
> |
> | Mipmapping detail level: Blend
> | PCI texture memory size : 15 mb
> |
> | Under More D3D
> | Texel alignment value: 3
> | Vertical Synch: Always Off
> | Render no more than 0 frames ahead
> |
> | Then under the antialiasing tab: Off
> |
> | Hope this help,
> |
> | --
> | Don Burnette
> | D Burnette in N4
> |
> | Some people do nothing wrong.
> | The problem is, they do nothing.
> | And THAT is wrong.
> |


> | > Don this was great help for me!! Would you know the settings to put
into
> | the
> | > Driect3D section too as you did for OpenGL?? Tia.. Thom_j.
> | >


> | > | Open GL does indeed automatically take advantage of the hardware
TnL.
> | > | My Open GL settings are as follows:
> | > |
> | > | Use desktop color depth ( mine is 16 bit)
> | > | Buffer flipping mode: Auto Select
> | > | Vertical Synch: Always Off
> | > | FSAA: No antialiasing
> | > |
> | > | In the performance and capability options:
> | > |
> | > | Enable buffer region extension: Checked
> | > | Allow dual planes extension to use local video memory: Checked
> | > | Use fast linear-mipmaplinear-filtering : Checked
> | > | All the rest unchecked.
> | > |
> | > | I also run in 1024x768.
> | > |
> | > | No idea about about the aliasing issue with D3d, I have tried it on
> all
> | > | settings, don't really see a difference on the screen or in
> framerates.
> | > | --
> | > | Don Burnette
> | > | D Burnette in N4
> | > |
> | > | Some people do nothing wrong.
> | > | The problem is, they do nothing.
> | > | And THAT is wrong.
> | > |


> | > | > Yeah, running in 16bit color.  When I saw how much better my D3D
> w/TnL
> | > | was,
> | > | > I started wondering if there was some setting I need to turn on
for
> | > OPENGL
> | > | > to take advantage of TnL, but the consensus seems to be that OPEN
GL
> | > will,
> | > | > by default, use TnL.
> | > | >
> | > | > Any idea about the aliasing issue with D3D?  Is it possible to use
> AA
> | > | w/D3d
> | > | > in Nascar 4?
> | > | >
> | > | > Glen
> | > | >
> | > | > btw...my frame rate figures are exactly opposite of yours (running
> in
> | > | > 1024x768), OPENGL = 30's D3D w TnL = 50's
> | > | >


> | > | > >That's unusual, most folks get better frame rates in Open GL. You
> | > running
> | > | > in
> | > | > >16 bit color?
> | > | > >For example, my frame rates in Open Gl are in the 50's, in D3d
> w/TnL
> | > Hal
> | > | > >they are in the 30's.
> | > | > >
> | > | > >--
> | > | > >Don Burnette
> | > | > >D Burnette in N4
> | > | > >
> | > | > >Some people do nothing wrong.
> | > | > >The problem is, they do nothing.
> | > | > >And THAT is wrong.
> | > | > >


> | > | > >> I have a PIII 650 (oc'ed to 806) and a GeForce GTS card (using
> 6.5?
> | > | > >> drivers).  I have heard people say that OPENGL mode is
preferable
> | and
> | > | > that
> | > | > >> it automatically will take advantage of TnL.  I find that when
I
> | > select
> | > | > >D3D
> | > | > >> w/TnL that my frame rate is MUCH higher (12 - 17 fps higher on
> | > | average!)
> | > | > >> than when I use OPENGL (all graphics options being equal -
> | including
> | > | > >turning
> | > | > >> AA off when running in OPENGL).
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >> So you'd think that D3D is the obvious option for me to run
> | > | > in....however,
> | > | > >> anti-aliasing does not work in this mode.  I know that AA with
> D3D
> | > was
> | > | an
> | > | > >> early problem with GeForce cards.  Is this still the case?  Or
is
> | > there
> | > | > >> something I am missing?  I have AA 'forced' in my display
> control.
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >> If AA is not going to be possible for D3D, is there something I
> can
> | > do
> | > | to
> | > | > >> ensure that OPEN GL mode is taking advantage of the TnL?
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >> Any help appreciated.
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >> Glen
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >
> | > | > >
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > |
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> |

Andre Warrin

N4 - GeForce II D3D vs OpenGL Question...

by Andre Warrin » Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:05:20



Yup, press 'O' once to turn the grandstands off, saves a lot of fps at
the s/f line.

Andre

"Michael feels the same way about safety in auto racing as I do. Great minds
think alike." - David G Fisher


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