rec.autos.simulators

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

Dietmar Wo

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Dietmar Wo » Tue, 16 Jul 1996 04:00:00

- I grabbed the final version from Karstadt in Berlin/Wedding

- it is playable at SVGA with low detail (frame rate > 20 fps) with my
  P5-200 / Triton II / 512kb PB-cache / 64mb EDO / Matrox Mill. 2mb,
  but I have to switch off some textures (heaven, hills, ...,
  nothing important). But then its real fun. I would be interested
  whether a PPro-200/Natoma(FX440)/ET6000 combination is significantly
  faster (as it is the case for QUAKE). With some more textures
  switched off it should be playable in SVGA on a P133. And low detail
  sounds worse that it is, it is comparable to full detail in other
  games.

- camera views are much slower - even at low detail.

- normal detail level is playable but slow (10 - 20 fps), specially
  at Monaco. John Wallace said some time ago:
  thats simply nonsense.

- no 3d-accleration support - it would be of great value for the game,
  because full detail is very impressive, specially at Monaco.

- the graphical display of many parameters after test runs is a feature
  I haven't seen so far. You can change almost everything at your car.

- this game is excellent for beginners, very well designed driving aids.

My overall judgment is that it is one of the best games I have played
so far, but NASCAR with Matrox-3d-acceleration is considerably faster
at SVGA. GP2 with 3d-accleration support would be the ultimate
car simulator.  
At least an automatic switch off of details as in Nascar would help a lot.
--

 Technische Universitaet Berlin                    Tel:  (030) 314-73137
 FB 13 / Sekr. FR 6-1 / Raum FR 6026              Fax: +49-30-314-23516
 Franklinstr. 28/29   10587 Berlin  Germany

Henrik Hjortna

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Henrik Hjortna » Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:00:00


 DW> - it is playable at SVGA with low detail (frame rate > 20 fps) with my

 DW> - camera views are much slower - even at low detail.

What about the sound? Many different sounds? Good quality? Is it real samples or FM synthesis generated sound?

Do you have the same control methods available in F1GP2 as in F1GP1, like linear/non-linear throttle/steering, steering help on/off, traction control? Any new control methods regarding joystick handling?

 DW> My overall judgment is that it is one of the best games I have played so
 DW> far, but NASCAR with Matrox-3d-acceleration is considerably faster at
 DW> SVGA. GP2 with 3d-accleration support would be the ultimate  car
 DW> simulator.  

Does F1GP2 have the same gameplay ('feel') as F1GP1? Better?

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Henrik Hjortnaes
      AMIGA
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John Wallac

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by John Wallac » Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Sorry Dietmar, but you must have your machine/graphics configured very
poorly. We managed to get excellent frame rates even on a P-120, so I
can't imagine why your P-200 is so poor. I think you are too greedy with
graphic options? Turn them down! :)

Lovely graphics are wasted if you are always crashing at 5fps. Good
configuration is important. Others have posted that they have excellent
frame rates even with P-90 or in some cases with DX-4 (486) - the key is
only to try to run the graphics your machine can support.

Cheers!
John

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Alex Fernand

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Alex Fernand » Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:00:00





>>- normal detail level is playable but slow (10 - 20 fps), specially
>>  at Monaco. John Wallace said some time ago:
>>>>>>on a P-166 and P-200 it absolutely flies<<<<
>>  thats simply nonsense.

>Sorry Dietmar, but you must have your machine/graphics configured very
>poorly. We managed to get excellent frame rates even on a P-120, so I
>can't imagine why your P-200 is so poor. I think you are too greedy with
>graphic options? Turn them down! :)

>Lovely graphics are wasted if you are always crashing at 5fps. Good
>configuration is important. Others have posted that they have excellent
>frame rates even with P-90 or in some cases with DX-4 (486) - the key is
>only to try to run the graphics your machine can support.

>Cheers!
>John

Well, it's pretty scary when software needs machinary that's 3-5 years out
in the future to run in all it's glory. I think that Geoff should probably
look into supporting the upcoming Voodoo and Verite chips for the next
upgrade patch.

===========================================================
Alex Fernandez
MTS
Lucent Technologies
No. Andover, MA
email:

tel: (508)960-6510
===========================================================

Stefan Maerk

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Stefan Maerk » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00


> What about the sound? Many different sounds? Good quality?
> Is it real samples or FM synthesis generated sound?

There are samples. The quality is good, but there aren't to many of them.
I like the sounds, though I think the sound of your own motor should vary
a bit, not just the same sample looped over a small time. Especially on
high-speed tracks that destroys a bit of realism.

Just tried keyboard jet, but yes, you can define all the steering methods as
in f1gp. Additionally you can switch on/off traction help from within the
game with F7.

I started GP2 - choose SVGA and Monaco track and came 'round the track
without a single crash (traction help on) but 8 seconds slower than I used
to :-).
The Keyboard Layout is the same
as in f1gp, 'a','z' throttle and brake ',','.' steering , 'g' shows
neighbouring drivers, 'o' occupancy of the processor ...
The Helps can be toggled with function keys as in f1gp.

But :
Braking is much more realistic. With keyboard control, you will get a lot of
blocking wheels (nice sound and smoke in your mirror ...).
The steering is comparable to f1gp, but the tracks are better. You can drive
over the kerbs without loosing time as in f1gp, the car will lift a bit on
the side you take them. But beware crossing them with your tyres, you'll
spin very quickly.

So if you ever played f1gp, you will have nothing to learn to start racing
in GP2, but you will be impressed by the new realism level.

Stefan

---


Patrick Dog

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Patrick Dog » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00


I'm from breda... can you tell me where you got it... it want it too !!!

Greetings Patrick

John Wallac

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by John Wallac » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Hi Flashboy

Wow! I didn't think I had any credibility to lose :)  Thanks for that,
I'm flattered.

I doubt what little credibility I have is going to suffer, you have to
understand that you and I are describing the same thing from different
viewpoints.

A few months ago one of the test team made a comment pertinent to this
discussion. He said that one of the test drivers was playing the game
very happily on a 486-66 (true), and that he was delighted with this
until he saw the game on a P-166. Only then did he think it was poor on
the 486.

The point is your expectations are really high with a very well put
together high-spec computer. Mine are also high, with a similar spec
system to yours. Having played on your P-166, I can see why you would
think people will be upset running on a P-120 or less - heck it'll be
nothing like as good as yours.

However, these guys have never seen it on a P-166, and their
expectations will not be as high. There is no point in me saying that it
runs at 10fps in SVGA full detail at Monaco on my P-200, that will only
cause people to be depressed. A friend Georg Naujoks over on CompuServe
is delighted with the performance on his P-90. He can run full detail
VGA, or no detail SVGA with good frame rates. On the other hand, another
guy Michael Wollenschein is not so happy since his (top spec) P-166
system can't do all details. Each person configures as their system
allows, and makes up their own mind.

You and I may be unhappy with SVGA full detail performance, but do you
think anyone will avoid buying the game because we say so? I'm not that
full of myself, whatever I say people will go and buy it for themselves
to test. 486 users shouldn't be able to play the game at all according
to the specs, so if a 486-66 runs the game smoothly in VGA with no
detail, 486 owners won't give a rat's ass what I think of SVGA on a P-
166.

No, the game configuration (although BIOS configuration comes into it a
lot). As for proving you wrong, there is nothing to prove. If you can
show me anywhere in anything that I have said Monaco can be run at 20-
25fps in full detail, I will personally buy you a nice new P-200. It was
never said, and I don't know why you chose that as an example.

Sure - with EVERYTHING on in SVGA a P-90 can occasionally hit 0.5/fps
around Monaco - that's scary! However, turn off the "biggies" like track
and sky texture, knock down the mirror detail and some other textures,
and you're playing with good frame rates. If you go for all textures,
the occupancy will be horrible - of course.

Actually we're having a contest over on CompuServe - one of the guys has
a 486-66, and we're trying to guess the occupancy figure he will get at
Monaco in SVGA with full detail! :)

To reiterate WHAT I SAID, "We managed to get excellent frame rates even
on a P-120" - that is "excellent", not "FLY". You may not get 25fps, but
you will get 18-20fps as Marc has had. Is that not better than sitting
watching "the *** elite" playing it on their P-166/200 machines while
most can't play it? I think so.

The point is that this is a totally personal thing to each individual,
what combination of frame-rate/graphics is acceptable to them. You
obviosly have different expectations of graphics from myself, Marc, and
some others who have played already. Others have a similar opinion to
you.

The game will be available to everyone soon, let them form their own
opinions - they're not going to avoid buying it simply because you or I
said so!! :)

Cheers!
John
                     _________________________________
         __    _____|                                 |_____    __
________|  |__|    :|           John Wallace          |     |__|  |________

  \    :|  |::|    :|        Team WW Racing TSW       |     |::|  |     /
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Chuck Anders

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Chuck Anders » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00


> As for proving you wrong, there is nothing to prove. If you can
> show me anywhere in anything that I have said Monaco can be run at 20-
> 25fps in full detail, I will personally buy you a nice new P-200.

John,
A little cuttin & pastin and I found the following:
  >> John Wallace wrote (at some point in the past):
  >>  "Monaco can be run at 20-25fps in full detail"
I'll get you the address to send my nice new P-200 to!! :) :)
Patrick Gilmor

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Patrick Gilmor » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00




> >Well, it's pretty scary when software needs machinary that's 3-5 years out
> >in the future to run in all it's glory.

> No, I think it's entirely sensible. Look at F1GP, it's five years old
> now, and it's entirely possible that we'll be playing GP2 for the next
> 5 years, so it seems a pretty good idea that it still looks good and
> plays well in 5 years time when our expectations will be that much
> higher.

My experience with Nascar Racing has been exactly what is described
above: for the last two years I have been running it on a P60 with a
lousy graphics card and have always had the details almost all turned off
- no objects, track, wall textures, etc.(in SVGA) Now I have just
upgraded to a P166 and it is like having a new game in some respects.
Sure, the racing experience wasn't maybe as exciting (on my P60) as it is
now with my new machine, but still the game was more than worth playing.
John Wallac

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by John Wallac » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Wise guy :)

                     _________________________________
         __    _____|                                 |_____    __
________|  |__|    :|           John Wallace          |     |__|  |________

  \    :|  |::|    :|        Team WW Racing TSW       |     |::|  |     /
    >  :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |   <
  /    :|__|::|____/       * Sim Racing News *         \____|::|__|     \
/______:/  \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/  \._____\
               http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

S.S.C.J. SCHIFFELEER

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by S.S.C.J. SCHIFFELEER » Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:00:00

ITS OUT IN HOLLAND...... I CANT WAIT

Jean-Francois De Rudde

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Jean-Francois De Rudde » Fri, 19 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Can we please have more people like John on the newsgroup, people who can
discuss issues with a cool head, admitting wrong when wrong, and without
all the threatening and swear words we tend to see more and more. It
becomes quite disturbing to feel like discussing with immature ***agers
who don't know what discussing is all about.
Don't forget that people around the world will quickly realise what you
are like by reading one of your post, especially when it is made of very

Alex Fernand

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Alex Fernand » Fri, 19 Jul 1996 04:00:00

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:52:34 -0700, Patrick Gilmore





>> >Well, it's pretty scary when software needs machinary that's 3-5 years out
>> >in the future to run in all it's glory.

>> No, I think it's entirely sensible. Look at F1GP, it's five years old
>> now, and it's entirely possible that we'll be playing GP2 for the next
>> 5 years, so it seems a pretty good idea that it still looks good and
>> plays well in 5 years time when our expectations will be that much
>> higher.

>My experience with Nascar Racing has been exactly what is described
>above: for the last two years I have been running it on a P60 with a
>lousy graphics card and have always had the details almost all turned off
>- no objects, track, wall textures, etc.(in SVGA) Now I have just
>upgraded to a P166 and it is like having a new game in some respects.
>Sure, the racing experience wasn't maybe as exciting (on my P60) as it is
>now with my new machine, but still the game was more than worth playing.

I think some people misunderstood me. I have nothing against games that
push the top-of-the-line hardware way past the limit. It's just that I
think that it's scary since folks that are fanatics and have the cash will
keep upgrading their hardware just to use their software at its full
potential. I'm one of them. I used to run NASCAR on my P100 w/ Millenium
and it was o.k. I only payed it once in a while as compared to ICR2. I
bought a P6-200MHz and NASCAR is an extreme joy! At 27fps in worst case
conditions (all textures on, all opponents ahead and behind), I just wish I
could spend 12 hours a day on it.

By the way, doesn't anybody feel guilty about blowing away countless hours
on these sims when you could do other more improtant things?

===========================================================
Alex Fernandez
MTS
Lucent Technologies
No. Andover, MA
email:

tel: (508)960-6510
===========================================================

Sean

GP2 - first impressions on a P200

by Sean » Fri, 19 Jul 1996 04:00:00

In a word.......  NO

Sean Alexander
http://users.aol.com/cjwright/sean/vette.htm


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