rec.autos.simulators

Oval racing, my point

Bill Jone

Oval racing, my point

by Bill Jone » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00


and CART (more so CART because it is actually pretty competitive).  I cannot
agree that NASCAR is just "floor it and turn left."  Each oval is
substantially different, and although some may not think dealing with
traffic

I realize that NASCAR is much more than "floor it and turn left" as well,
but damn, at Daytona Mark Martin was heard over his radio, "I haven't lifted
in over 30 laps now."  Those restrictor plates reduce the power so that the
engine can't match the handling capability of the car.  Shorter tracks seem
to require more driver skill.

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Peter Hoope

Oval racing, my point

by Peter Hoope » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Strange how people's opinions differ. I too am from the UK so my viewing is
also restricted to the TV (roll on The Rockingham track at Corby...) but I
find it anything but boring. I get far more enjoyment out of watching
Nascar\CART\IRL on the ovals than I do now from watching the F1 races which
due to the nature of most of the tracks can just turn into a procession
after the first lap. The disparity between the cars in F1 also take away
from the enjoyment factor whereas Nascar races are played out on a much more
level playing field.

There is much more enjoyment to be had from watching Nascar with drivers
constantly changing positions, moving up and down the field, etc than F1
where all too often we are left watching someone drive off into the distance
with only a mistake or a pit lane***-up giving the possibility of the race
actually becoming a race. Of course I still watch F1 and am hoping that
maybe this year we will see a little more e***ment.

Peter Hooper


daxe

Oval racing, my point

by daxe » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> > : IROC

> > :   How come the events are nearly always won by a NASCAR driver?  The
> series
> > : is run on ovals exclusively,

>     Umm, actually in 2000 the Winston Cup cars race at both Sears Point
> and the Glen.

>     Jim

Umm, what part of *IROC* didn't you understand?

~daxe

daxe

Oval racing, my point

by daxe » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00




> >There have been a few successful road racers who entered NASCAR and none
of
> >them has fared very well.

>     ...especially not someone like Tony Stewart...

Wasn't Tony Stewart's previous experience centered largely around Sprints,
Midgets, Silver Crowns and the oval-only IRL?

~daxe

Woodie

Oval racing, my point

by Woodie » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00



>I think if there were more racers from different genres willing to
>participate in IROC it might have a different flavor.  I understand that the
>champions from most racing series are invited to participate, but many
>refuse.  It would be a lot of fun to see M. Schumacher running against D.
>Earnhardt, don't you think?

On a reasonable mix of tracks, yes.  IROC as it stands today is meaningless.

Don McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports

Moezill

Oval racing, my point

by Moezill » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I think Stewart is an exceptionally good driver, he'd be successful in
any form of racing.


> >There have been a few successful road racers who entered NASCAR and none of
> >them has fared very well.

>     ...especially not someone like Tony Stewart...

> Gunner
> (just bein' a smartass.  again. lol)

drbo..

Oval racing, my point

by drbo.. » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

        I can tell you there's a lot of difference.  NASCAR 3 would
show you.

        Just the beginning of the season:  Daytona is flat out,
smoothness and drafting are the deal.  Rockingham is heavy braking and
turning and the two corners are different because of the dogleg.  Las
Vegas is getting the car to turn in at 185 (light braking to help turn
in is essential) and then picking up the throttle as soon as possible.
The line is not a simple arc.  And so on.  

        BTW, I used to road race.  Oval tracks are no easier, just
different.  Ask Nige.

        bob

Brian P. Sween

Oval racing, my point

by Brian P. Sween » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Hey, Superdave, real sorry for stealing your post, but, well, it's really
handy for me.

All these ding-a-lings in the Indy newsgroup think that 1) Oval racing is
so very difficult, 2) Computer sims are hardly a representation of true
oval difficulty, and 3) That since I don't race, I'm not qualified to talk
about the matter.

All points are bullshit, but your credentials will send them scurrying for
another pathetic means of justifying oval racing.

By the way, Mario Andretti recently said essentially what you wrote, so
you're in good company.


- You have another believer right here. NASCAR is not racing. Watching cars
- drive around on an oval seems very monotonous. I cannot see the sport in
- this at all. I say put them on a road course and leave them there. Just what
- is the sport in " put it to the floor and steer to the left " ?
-
- And why are they called stock cars? There is nothing stock about a stock
- car. I have a lot more respect for Touring Car and Rally Car racers than I
- ever will for a NASCAR driver.
-
- I raced Supersport and Superbike Suzuki GSXR's for several years and road
- courses really show skill. NASCAR just seems to be a freight train going
- around and around.
-
- I'll take Schumacher and Colin McCrae over Jeff Gordon anyday.
-

-          http://www.cushdrive.com/

*************************************************************
"You really should try racing some in your lifetime (and not on your
computer ...). You would quickly discover how much easier a road
course is than an oval."

-Allan Pagan

Eldre

Oval racing, my point

by Eldre » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00



>You have another believer right here. NASCAR is not racing. Watching cars
>drive around on an oval seems very monotonous. I cannot see the sport in
>this at all. I say put them on a road course and leave them there. Just what
>is the sport in " put it to the floor and steer to the left " ?

You *honestly* think that all the ovals are the same, and you can floor it all
the way around the track?  You're kidding, right?  Try flooring it around
Bristol - I *dare* you...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Turbo A

Oval racing, my point

by Turbo A » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

If you really think oval racing is just "put your foot to the floor and turn
left" then you just proved your ignorance to me. The rest of the statements
below don't have much in the way of fact either. Only Pagan's quote has any
merit.
TA


>Hey, Superdave, real sorry for stealing your post, but, well, it's really
>handy for me.

>All these ding-a-lings in the Indy newsgroup think that 1) Oval racing is
>so very difficult, 2) Computer sims are hardly a representation of true
>oval difficulty, and 3) That since I don't race, I'm not qualified to talk
>about the matter.

>All points are bullshit, but your credentials will send them scurrying for
>another pathetic means of justifying oval racing.

>By the way, Mario Andretti recently said essentially what you wrote, so
>you're in good company.



>- You have another believer right here. NASCAR is not racing. Watching cars
>- drive around on an oval seems very monotonous. I cannot see the sport in
>- this at all. I say put them on a road course and leave them there. Just
what
>- is the sport in " put it to the floor and steer to the left " ?
>-

>-          http://www.cushdrive.com/

>>  > First of all thank you for your input and congratulations on resisting
>> the
>> > temptation to call me names.

>> > The point is FOR ME that every oval track looks VERY much like another
and
>> > if I remember well you have about 20 races per year in NASACR and about
10
>> > of them on ovals, so the thing is :

>> > Isn't it a bit the same to watch a nascar race on an oval track
somewhere
>> > and the next oval race 15 days later somewhere else.

>> > Please don't tell me too much about "each oval is different because the
>> > banking is different or because the tarmac doesn't have the same
texture"

>*************************************************************
>"You really should try racing some in your lifetime (and not on your
>computer ...). You would quickly discover how much easier a road
>course is than an oval."

>-Allan Pagan

Mark Seer

Oval racing, my point

by Mark Seer » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

As soon as Rockingham is built of course <G>

There is now talk about a collaboration with the German circuit also under
construction.

MS

Mark Seer

Oval racing, my point

by Mark Seer » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Agreed.
There are two totally different disciplines here. Of course there are
exceptions to the rule. Anyone remember Mr Mansell cleaning up on the ovals
in CART in 1993?  <G>

MS



> >you really have to say the successful
> > road course driver is likely to be the most capable driver.

> I have been reading this thread with interest and most of what I want to
say
> has been said by someone else, but I have one word for this thread:

> IROC

>   How come the events are nearly always won by a NASCAR driver?  The
series
> is run on ovals exclusively, but somehow the 'capable' road racers
competing
> in identically prepared cars can't beat the oval guys.  Is it possible
that
> oval racing is not easier, but simply requires a *different* skill set?
It
> is likely the road racers would cream the NASCAR guys on a road course,
but
> if driving an oval is so easy..how come the road racers can't beat them
> there?

> ~daxe

Mark Seer

Oval racing, my point

by Mark Seer » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Fittipaldi was "middle to top

LOL.
A slight understatement about a guy with 2 world championships.

MS

Davi

Oval racing, my point

by Davi » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Nigel orginally could not stand driving ovals like Michigan due to
vibration not allowing him to see.  Funny how he got over that after he saw
all the rest of the CART drivers out there.

Dave



Brian Richardso

Oval racing, my point

by Brian Richardso » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> If you really think oval racing is just "put your foot to the floor and turn
> left" then you just proved your ignorance to me. The rest of the statements
> below don't have much in the way of fact either. Only Pagan's quote has any
> merit.
> TA


> >Hey, Superdave, real sorry for stealing your post, but, well, it's really
> >handy for me.

> >All these ding-a-lings in the Indy newsgroup think that 1) Oval racing is
> >so very difficult, 2) Computer sims are hardly a representation of true
> >oval difficulty, and 3) That since I don't race, I'm not qualified to talk
> >about the matter.

> >All points are bullshit, but your credentials will send them scurrying for
> >another pathetic means of justifying oval racing.

> >By the way, Mario Andretti recently said essentially what you wrote, so
> >you're in good company.



> >- You have another believer right here. NASCAR is not racing. Watching cars
> >- drive around on an oval seems very monotonous. I cannot see the sport in
> >- this at all. I say put them on a road course and leave them there. Just
> what
> >- is the sport in " put it to the floor and steer to the left " ?

> >-

> >-          http://www.cushdrive.com/

> >>  > First of all thank you for your input and congratulations on resisting
> >> the
> >> > temptation to call me names.

> >> > The point is FOR ME that every oval track looks VERY much like another
> and
> >> > if I remember well you have about 20 races per year in NASACR and about
> 10
> >> > of them on ovals, so the thing is :

> >> > Isn't it a bit the same to watch a nascar race on an oval track
> somewhere
> >> > and the next oval race 15 days later somewhere else.

> >> > Please don't tell me too much about "each oval is different because the
> >> > banking is different or because the tarmac doesn't have the same
> texture"

> >*************************************************************
> >"You really should try racing some in your lifetime (and not on your
> >computer ...). You would quickly discover how much easier a road
> >course is than an oval."

> >-Allan Pagan

I think the truth is this: road course racing requires every skill in terms of
set-up, car control, etc. that oval racing requires....however, road racing
demands additional skills that are never required in oval racing. For example,
do you think Jeff Gordon will ever deal with the sheer braking loads in NASCAR
like Schumie encounters every week in F1?  I'm sure that other posters can
readily add to my examples. There's no doubt that driving a Champ Car, exposed
to the elements, at 235 mph demands large stones; and guys like Adrian
Fernandez have proven that you can win on an oval even when your car isn't the
quickest.

I remember the recent article where one of the major car mag editors sat behind
Mario in the 'ride along' car at Laguna Seca, and he commented that the sheer
brutality of the velocity changes and cornering loads were a revelation that
gave him newfound respect for the CART guys.

Brian R


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