rec.autos.simulators

Oval racing, my point

Ric

Oval racing, my point

by Ric » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00


>So Martinsville looks the same as Michigan and Indy is the same as Nazareth!

>Come on guys!

>My advice is get yourself a copy of NASCAR 3, get online and tell me all
>NASCAR tracks are the same and NASCAR racing is monotonous.

on announcing that the patch for Nascar 3 will have RS-Shifter support
I took a download of the demo of Nascar today. I have never been into
oval racing before being from europe and not ever seeing any and
avoiding it on TV because it looks monotonous.

anyway i loaded the game up and i loved it, i couldnt believe i was
just driving in circles and it was fun.

so i must admit after today i'm a convert, though to be honest i'm
still not sure it appeals to me to watch it on tv.

anyway thats my bit.

Rich
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Ric

Oval racing, my point

by Ric » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

if it comes down to oval drivers beating road drivers, well don't you
remember a certain nigel mansell coming from formula 1 in his first
season of indycar, he won the championship and he'd never raced on an
oval before that season.

an exception to the rule ?
http://come.to/rs-shifter

Intimidato

Oval racing, my point

by Intimidato » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00



OK, I won't.  Your mind is made up on NASCAR, so no sense in trying to
change it.

Yeah, that never happens in, for example, F1.  It never happened when
Michael Schumacher took out Damon Hill at Adelaide to retain the
championship.  It never happened when Schumacher drove into Villeneuve
to prevent Jaques from winning the championship.  It never happened
when Senna drove into Prost at Suzuka to win the championship.  It
never happened when Senna drove into Mansell at the final race in
Adelaide, right before Mansell made the move to CART.  I could go on,
but "some ***" kicking you out on the last lap only happens in
NASCAR, apparently.

Steve Ferguso

Oval racing, my point

by Steve Ferguso » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

: IROC

:   How come the events are nearly always won by a NASCAR driver?  The series
: is run on ovals exclusively, but somehow the 'capable' road racers competing
: in identically prepared cars can't beat the oval guys.  Is it possible that
: oval racing is not easier, but simply requires a *different* skill set?  It
: is likely the road racers would cream the NASCAR guys on a road course, but
: if driving an oval is so easy..how come the road racers can't beat them
: there?

I recall an interview with a top-level road racer (forget who) who ran in
IROC a few years ago and admitted he was genuinely afraid.  He could put
in a decent qualifying lap, but running with the pack was a very
uncomfortable experience for him.  He said that the skills are very
different.  

Stephen

Steve Ferguso

Oval racing, my point

by Steve Ferguso » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

: The point is FOR ME that every oval track looks VERY much like another and
: if I remember well you have about 20 races per year in NASACR and about 10
: of them on ovals, so the thing is :

: Isn't it a bit the same to watch a nascar race on an oval track somewhere
: and the next oval race 15 days later somewhere else.

: Please don't tell me too much about "each oval is different because the
: banking is different or because the tarmac doesn't have the same texture"

I grew up with Nascar in the days of Petty, Yarborough, Pearson etc., back
when we just saw Daytona on TV. To me, Nascar was flat out racing on a
big, fast, *** oval.  Lots of spills, thrills and close finishes.  I
still seem to remember Petty and Pearson tangling and spinning out on the
last lap, then one of them (Pearson I think) managing to drag his lump of
shit across the line first.  The attraction is partly a childhood
familiarity then.

I lost interest through the 80s and early 90s, and my F1 interest picked
up.  Again, I had childhood memories of Hunt, Scheckter etc. racing at
Monaco, the only race we saw.  F1 took over and introduced me to racing
sims.

Papyrus's Nascar 1 brought me back to the big, thundery cars.  I still
find it rather dull to watch a race on TV, actually, but quite fun to race
on the computer.  The control required is significant, and the
satisfaction of a clean pass (or not so clean) is as high as in the F1
sims.

: On TV it all looks very much the same for me when I get the possibility to
: look at it, in F1 or any other circuit race every corner is different, VERY
: different and therefore it requires (I think) more skill from the driver,
: and more strengh (in terms of physical condition).

The current dumbing down of F1 tracks has reduced many of them to the same
type of corners.  Once you get the braking points, they're very
similar.  There are only a handful of difficult corners, or at least
unique ones, like Eau Rouge.  There are several unique corners in the
Nascar series.  But in broad terms, I would divide the ovals into short
and long for me in terms of what it takes to drive them.  To drive them
*really* well, you need to see the subtle differences between them all.

: Also one bad thing about nascar (I think) is that sometimes the "bad guy"
: wins by pushing the "good guy" out, since I work in motorsports myself,
: doing some truck racing (real trucks in Europe, not pickups like the nascar

Senna and Prost?  Schumacher and Hill?  Schumacher and Villeneuve?

Stephen

LL

Oval racing, my point

by LL » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I would like to point out that there are no non-US drivers in NASCAR because
it's so juicy (money) that it is NOT POSSIBLE to get in if you don't have a
20 year history in US motor racing.

I seriusly doubt the driving skills of NASCAR/CART drivers as opposed to F1
drivers...

I base myself on the fact that everytime a CART drivers comes to F1 he
doesn't have fantastic results (expect for villeneuve after 3 years in the
best F1 car...), on the other hand F1 guys going to CART (because they can't
go to INDY) are more often "good".

Stefan Johnasson was a "middle to end" level driver in F1, never won a
race....Fittipaldi was "middle to top", Mansell was good, Zanardi is the
best example, when he came back from CARt he was lost in F1, and you can't
say that it was the car which was bad because he was trashed by his teammate
which is the best reference since he has the same car.

If NASCAR drivers were so good they would go to other racing categories and
kick ass.

1 exception to this rule Mario ADRETTI (I didn't even mention Michael).

See my point, NASCAR is SHOW, more SHOW than SERIOUS race...but it's good
because i think the maerican audience is more interested in SHOW than about
technical edge performance...

besides that *** YOU GEORGE BUSH JUNIOR, Odell BUSH didn't do it, *** YOU
SORRY EXCUSE FOR A MAN !!!!

> Because even if it is very easy I can kick the ass of Schumacher on
> GPL...because I do it always and he doesn't....

> But even if I train in his ferrari for 1 year (oh yes) I will never beat
him
> there, because he is just better..





> > >you really have to say the successful
> > > road course driver is likely to be the most capable driver.

> > I have been reading this thread with interest and most of what I want to
> say
> > has been said by someone else, but I have one word for this thread:

> > IROC

> >   How come the events are nearly always won by a NASCAR driver?  The
> series
> > is run on ovals exclusively, but somehow the 'capable' road racers
> competing
> > in identically prepared cars can't beat the oval guys.  Is it possible
> that
> > oval racing is not easier, but simply requires a *different* skill set?
> It
> > is likely the road racers would cream the NASCAR guys on a road course,
> but
> > if driving an oval is so easy..how come the road racers can't beat them
> > there?

> > ~daxe

Andre Warrin

Oval racing, my point

by Andre Warrin » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Isn't that the same with an offline training mode race in GPL compared
to an online race in a league race? I really feel bad when I hit
someone during an important online race, and I feel even a lot worse
when someone hits me :)
It takes lots of effort to concentrate on both the ideal line AND
concentrate on all the other cars around. Definately scaring for me!

Andre

Andre Warrin

Oval racing, my point

by Andre Warrin » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Ok, you got me James, gonna install Nascar 3 again tonight :)

Andre

On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 14:30:12 -0500, James Wohlever


>On the following date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:43:18 +1100, said person(s)

>>I think F1 is the better TV sport. Nascar the best live. The two driving
>>styles are almost totally opposite.

>BINGO, hit the nail on the head.
>For TV, yes NASCAR for the average Joe sucks.
>But, if your into NASCAR and ever been to a race or race NASCAR 3 then
>you watch it on TV you get a whole different perspective.
>You get to see the strategy in pitting, in waiting until lap so and so
>for car 4 to overtake car 6.
>Its not all about putting the pedal to the floor and turning left.
>Its bout approaching turn 3. You got a car on your right door, you got
>a car on your left quarter panel... your approaching that turn.. what
>you gonna do.. slow down and let both cars overtake you?
>Drop down and try to keep the guy on the left behind you hoping you
>down hit him on the process? Stay the line and hope the guy above you
>backs off?
>And each driver is facing that same type of problems for each turn.
>Then, you come out of turn 4 into the straightaway.. you got 15 laps
>of gas left.. Do you pit now and hope a yellow comes out soon.. if so
>you won;t have to pit and can take the lead.. but will you be able to
>stay on the track until the finish?
>Will an accident happen so you can jump into the pits with 5 laps
>left?
>Your coming down the back straight... your spotter suddenly calls out
>wreck on the back straight.. you see a cloud of smoke.. and that's all
>you see..
>Do you go high hoping whoever wreck spun low.. or do you go low
>thinking the guy smacked the upper wall.. You get to the smoke cloud
>pretty fast as your doing 190+
>You cant see squat.. you here a car screaming out of control.. then
>right in front of you.. a car is going sideways.. you hit the breaks..
>fighting the wheel.. you hold the line down low and come out the
>smoke... you look in your rear view mirror to see that the #5 car that
>has been hounding you for the last 20 laps wasn't so lucky.. there he
>sits up against the wall after loosing a tire from hitting the car you
>just missed.

>2 laps left.. you and the 1st place are neck and neck.. through turns
>1 and 2 you stay neck and neck.. every time you get into a passing
>situation he gets a little more ump.
>Last lap, the white flag is flying..  your hands are sweating like
>crazy.. you come out of turn 2 with a good line. you dive down to the
>apex.. oooh boy he slightly over corrected.. you get beside his door..
>you look over.. he is fighting for everything he has got.. but you
>have the inside line...   turns 3 and 4 he stays right along side
>you.. as you come out of turn 4 into that last straight to the finish
>you ride up high.. 2 inches apart.. hoping to make him back off..
>slowly, so very slowly your inching ahead.. checkered flag...
>its gonna be close...
>did I?
>did he?

>All of a sudden you hear your spotter screaming for joy.. you crossed
>the finished about 6 inches in front of him!!!
>Your throw you hand out the window and wave to the fans as you do your
>victory lap....

>Now come on, that doesn't sound like fun?

>- James "Gunslinger" Wohlever

>Techware Computer Services
>http://techware.gtinsider.com

>Send ATTACHMENTS (Files) to:


Mark Hewit

Oval racing, my point

by Mark Hewit » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Do you have any idea when ascar is going to start?
--
Mark Hewitt
http://www.worldmotorsport.com

Mark Hewit

Oval racing, my point

by Mark Hewit » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Do you know when ASCAR is due to start?

--
Mark Hewitt
http://www.worldmotorsport.com

Ross Hashan

Oval racing, my point

by Ross Hashan » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00


I'm just picking up on this thread now, so please excuse me if i'm restating
what i'm sure someone else has already said..

Rubbish--- Smaller Formula One teams have had "rent-a-ride" drivers for as
long as I remember - often paying over $1million/race because the team needs
the finances to keep going. I find it hard to believe that if they presented
the same money to a Nascar team, they would be refused a ride. Yes, it is
possible for anyone to get in to a race, of any kind- even F1 (with
"SuperLicense", of course). No, more likely, Nascar does not interest them;
who wants to drive round and round left-hand turns only for most of the
season?

Err.. Fittipaldi was a 2-time F1-Champ, btw.

Zanardi was one of the worst drivers in F1 BEFORE he went to CART. This just
proves the point even more. Albeit he was not in the best of teams, but
Johnny Herbert regularly outclassed him in the same car -- he then goes to
CART and cleans house!
("I always considered what I was doing in the US to be  the top of the game.
I never felt that I could do something better that" - quote:Alessandro
Zanardi.)
-- so he went back to F1 to prove that his first experience in F1 was just a
rash of bad luck/bad car. CART is the "top"-- so F1 should be a breeze,
right? Think again, Alessandro!!(err.. i mean "Alex"!!)  ZERO points in a
season and his teammate scored 30+!!

How many CART(/ie: IndyCar) drivers have gone to F1 and succeeded? How many
CART drivers have gone to F1 period??
Not many: (Mario Andretti, Danny Sullivan, Jacques Villeneuve(Gilles'
brother), Michael Andretti, Andrea Montermini, and
Jacques Villeneuve (Gilles' son). And how many of these CART drivers who
came over did well in Formula One??... The answer: TWO (Mario & the younger
Jacques). Now, how many F1 drivers have had some success on the other side
of the Atlantic? Well, between 1982 and 1996, EIGHT of four*** Indycar
Rookie of the Year awards went to former Formula One drivers!!

A better more recent example would be Mark Blundell -- a "so-so" driver in
F1 (brief glimpses of something good) -- comes to CART and excels on the
ovals; i believe he has a better record on the ovals than on the
road-courses. Mansell too did well on the ovals I believe, did he not? So
did Max Papis, Christian Fittipaldi, and I know Emo Fittipaldi certainly
did. Eddie Cheever did very well on ovals, as did Teo Fabi, Danny Sulivan
and Raul Boesel before him.

Seems to me history has proven one thing: F1 drivers are, for the most part,
the best drivers around. They can go elsewhere and win, or run midfield at
the very least. Going the other way, there are very few drivers from N.
American series that can go to F1 and succeed, let alone run mid-field.
Zanardi proved that you don't even have to be very good to win in N.
America - that pretty much tells it how it is...

R. Hashana

Bob Curti

Oval racing, my point

by Bob Curti » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> besides that *** YOU GEORGE BUSH JUNIOR, Odell BUSH didn't do it, *** YOU
> SORRY EXCUSE FOR A MAN !!!!

Well, that certainly speaks volumes for your credibility.  Why don't you just
stuff your pacifier back in your mouth and shut up.

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy
skin"

daxe

Oval racing, my point

by daxe » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00


Perhaps it is a language barrier which prevents you understanding that
nobody is saying NASCAR drivers compare favorably with F1 drivers in that
kind of racing.  Though your initial post started an interesting and mostly
intelligent discussion on the matter, I see now that you are really only
interested in *** it into a shouting match about who is better.

~daxe

<ka0..

Oval racing, my point

by <ka0.. » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00

    Umm, actually in 2000 the Winston Cup cars race at both Sears Point
and the Glen.

    Jim

Don Hancock (

Oval racing, my point

by Don Hancock ( » Fri, 03 Mar 2000 04:00:00


>There have been a few successful road racers who entered NASCAR and none of
>them has fared very well.

    ...especially not someone like Tony Stewart...

Gunner
(just bein' a smartass.  again. lol)


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