rec.autos.simulators

by **Tempor** » Sat, 04 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Same thing as the unofficial one, except with Direct3D support, two
recorded replays, and a different start location for the Demo Chase. New are
the pedestrian, who are all men wearing the same exact thing. There's hardly
anybody in Miami even with Ped. Density to the max. Their reaction is really
stupid and robotic. They walk around and react like zombies by slowly
running away. The biggest flaw with this game is that everything seems to be
in noclip mode. Pedestrian will actually run THROUGH the side of buildings
like ghost if you chase them, and all the props STILL sink into the ground
like quicksand when you knock into them.
So far, no new props to knock over AFAIK. The 2D props still stinks.
The 3D props are uninteresting and sink into the ground and disappear.
Oncoming traffic STILL don't react AT ALL when you drive head on into them,
which stinks since you'll crash right into them when you're chased by the
cop. The textures are still extremely low-res and identical to the 'alpha'
demo. Map layout is identical with unrealistic barriers. All the traffic
seem to be controlled by lifeless drone drivers since they drive extremely
slow and don't react to anything at all.
If this is suppose to be a representative of the final game, this
demo sure as hell doesn't compel me to buy it. I had so much hope for this,
but this is shit. Midtown Madness is several times better than this and it
was released several months ago! If you want cop chases, load up Midtown
Madness, go into Cruise mode and harass a cop or two. The free style cop
chases in MM is actually exciting (REAL exciting) unlike the boring chase
(chases if you count the included replays) in the Driver demo. MM's also a
hell of a lot more atmospheric with convincing city modeling (at least it's
not a grid like in this Driver demo and you can drive on/into various
locales instead of restricted to the road and bland sidewalks), wide variety
of good to great graphics/textures, and most of all, convincing traffic. The
physics in MM is a hell of a lot better and convincing than this, which
seems to be lifted straight out of Destruction Derby (Reflection's other
game). I wonder why all the PSX players say this was so good. Big thumbs
down to this demo. The MM demo itself shows that it is a lot better than
Driver. I don't care if Driver has a lot of cities if all of them are bland,
desolate, and predictably grid like. Well, at least I read somewhere
(probably interview) that MM will hopefully get a NYC map eventually.
Okay, someone's going to flame me. Bombs away!!! I'll still reply!

by **Adam** » Sat, 04 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I agree, Driver sucks.

by **RoseVict** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I agree. This is a pretty lame demo.
Looks like a bad variation of MM.

by **Ed Ba** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:25:27 -0400,

Screw NYC in MM, how about San Francisco.. :)
I would RUSH out ands buy it.

--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* http://www.cabal.net
* http://www.sputum.com

by Jo » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> Same thing as the unofficial one, except with Direct3D support, two
>recorded replays, and a different start location for the Demo Chase.

And a SUPERB arcade driving model, particularly with the first-rate FF
support. This one's a no-brainer. I'm buying it the day it's released.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

by **Jon Van Ginneke** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I was impressed with the first Driver demo, but this was a bit of a let
down. It seemed to have no improvements, even though GT claimed that the
old demo was a very old beta....HA!....if that were the case this game would
have been also much improved. It wasn't.
Although my feelings were soon swayed when I tried the different weather
settings. I couldn't seem to access the other 2 without renaming the files,
but just edit the 661 script with the DriverMission program to have rain,
night time, or whatever ...it makes the game feel a bit more complete.

Jon

> I agree, Driver sucks.

> > Same thing as the unofficial one, except with Direct3D support,
> two
> > recorded replays, and a different start location for the Demo Chase. New
> are
> > the pedestrian, who are all men wearing the same exact thing. There's
> hardly
> > anybody in Miami even with Ped. Density to the max. Their reaction is
> really
> > stupid and robotic. They walk around and react like zombies by slowly
> > running away. The biggest flaw with this game is that everything seems
to
> be
> > in noclip mode. Pedestrian will actually run THROUGH the side of
buildings
> > like ghost if you chase them, and all the props STILL sink into the
ground
> > like quicksand when you knock into them.
> > So far, no new props to knock over AFAIK. The 2D props still
> stinks.
> > The 3D props are uninteresting and sink into the ground and disappear.
> > Oncoming traffic STILL don't react AT ALL when you drive head on into
> them,
> > which stinks since you'll crash right into them when you're chased by
the
> > cop. The textures are still extremely low-res and identical to the
'alpha'
> > demo. Map layout is identical with unrealistic barriers. All the traffic
> > seem to be controlled by lifeless drone drivers since they drive
extremely
> > slow and don't react to anything at all.
> > If this is suppose to be a representative of the final game,
this
> > demo sure as hell doesn't compel me to buy it. I had so much hope for
> this,
> > but this is shit. Midtown Madness is several times better than this and
it
> > was released several months ago! If you want cop chases, load up Midtown
> > Madness, go into Cruise mode and harass a cop or two. The free style cop
> > chases in MM is actually exciting (REAL exciting) unlike the boring
chase
> > (chases if you count the included replays) in the Driver demo. MM's also
a
> > hell of a lot more atmospheric with convincing city modeling (at least
> it's
> > not a grid like in this Driver demo and you can drive on/into various
> > locales instead of restricted to the road and bland sidewalks), wide
> variety
> > of good to great graphics/textures, and most of all, convincing traffic.
> The
> > physics in MM is a hell of a lot better and convincing than this, which
> > seems to be lifted straight out of Destruction Derby (Reflection's other
> > game). I wonder why all the PSX players say this was so good. Big thumbs
> > down to this demo. The MM demo itself shows that it is a lot better than
> > Driver. I don't care if Driver has a lot of cities if all of them are
> bland,
> > desolate, and predictably grid like. Well, at least I read somewhere
> > (probably interview) that MM will hopefully get a NYC map eventually.
> > Okay, someone's going to flame me. Bombs away!!! I'll still reply!

by **Wolfgang Preis** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> Same thing as the unofficial one, except with Direct3D support, two
>recorded replays, and a different start location for the Demo Chase. New are
>the pedestrian, who are all men wearing the same exact thing. There's hardly
>anybody in Miami even with Ped. Density to the max. Their reaction is really
>stupid and robotic. They walk around and react like zombies by slowly
>running away. The biggest flaw with this game is that everything seems to be
>in noclip mode. Pedestrian will actually run THROUGH the side of buildings
>like ghost if you chase them, and all the props STILL sink into the ground
>like quicksand when you knock into them.

[snip]

I agree with this part, even though I don't care too much about the
pedestrians in general. Just like in Midtown Madness, they're just eye
candy - you can't run them over (and I'm glad you can't, I'm not
interested in***in this kind of game), but this also means you
don't have to avoid them. You can ignore them, so they might just as
well not be there.

Well, I was in Chicago once, and I don't remember cars crashing into
each other at every corner for no apparent reason. :) But I agree that
livelier computer cars would be nice in Driver. Their reaction time is
that of grandmas going to Walmart. But at least they don't hit you if
you are driving slowly. They actually brake to avoid you, even if they
can't steer...

I have to disagree here. The big bonus of Driver, IMO, is the driving
physics of the car. The soft suspension and the accompanying body roll
makes driving this demo much more fun for me than MM. The cars in MM
(especially the Panoz roadster, and what other car can you drive in
the early stages of the game if you want to win?) drive like ***
balls on an even surface. No discernible suspension movement, no body
roll, nothing. If you jump, the car will jump once while landing and
then be totally stable again. The Driver physics are not realistic,
but more realistic *and* more fun than those of MM.

[snip]

I'm not flaming, I'm disagreeing. :)

Well, anyway, here are my major gripes with the official Driver demo:

- You can't use your wheel as input device and access all the
different views and options in the game, unless you have a wheel with
twelve or more buttons.

- The gas pedal is unsensitive as hell. It still feels like digital
input. (I once drove a Chevy Cavalier with a gas pedal that reacted
like this: very hard to push down, so you went from 'nothing' to 'full
throttle' inadvertently. Somebody at GM must believe that a 'sports
car' must react like this... yeah, right. I want *control*!)

- The brake pedal is connected to reverse. I hate that. I want a brake
and a proper reverse gear.

- The clipping distance is still too low. Buildings materilizing in
the distance are a pain. I would prefer untextured buildings that are
always there to such buildings that do the Cheshire cat trick.

I hope those things are fixed in the final release. But even with its
flaws, I find myself using the demo of driver more often than the
complete release of Midtown Madness. It's just more fun to drive.
YMMV.

--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

by **PaiK** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> >The
> >physics in MM is a hell of a lot better and convincing than this,
which
> >seems to be lifted straight out of Destruction Derby (Reflection's
other
> >game).

> I have to disagree here. The big bonus of Driver, IMO, is the driving
> physics of the car. The soft suspension and the accompanying body roll
> makes driving this demo much more fun for me than MM. The cars in MM
> (especially the Panoz roadster, and what other car can you drive in
> the early stages of the game if you want to win?) drive like ***
> balls on an even surface. No discernible suspension movement, no body
> roll, nothing. If you jump, the car will jump once while landing and
> then be totally stable again. The Driver physics are not realistic,
> but more realistic *and* more fun than those of MM.

I totally agree. More realistic and much more fun than MM.

Yes, you can't assign the rest of options to the keyboard.
But I think some buttons are no needed, choose you prefer view and stay
on her, what for the 'drop camera', and 'fast steer'...

It's a DIGITAL INPUT. You can 'off gas' or 'on gas', look on this and
will see, there is a point in the middle of gas/brake pedal travel
where the action is activated.

Demostration:

- In control options there are gas/brake up/down, and no left/right
which is analogic control.
- What for a 'burnout'/'cruise control' in a anologic control?
If were analogic you can 'do wheels' or maintain the speed with it, no
buttons needed.

This is an absolute must for a superb physics.
GT/Refelections we haven't console gamepads, we have controllers with
2/3/4 axis, use them!!!

Agree. And more, I want manual transmission.

Also agree.

Agree again. With this fixes will be an absolute winner.

I suppose that everybody playing the demo already have the Mission
Configurator v2.0, but just in case http://www.racesimcentral.net/

I'm gonna post this message in forums.gtgames.com/driver too, just in
case GT/Reflections aren't a r.a.s. readers.

JaviF

Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

by **Destro** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Yup. I can't stand popup and this game has too much of it. At least is better than
Carmageddon, now that game has sucky popup.

by **Andre Warrin** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Agree with you there Joe. The demo really gave me the feeling of being
in an actual cop chase, Great ARCADE driving model, fantastic ff, it
feels great when I take a corner using the handbrake.
It reminded me a little bit of Interstate 76, one of my all time
favorites.
See you in the store Joe the day it comes out!

Andre

>> Same thing as the unofficial one, except with Direct3D support, two
>>recorded replays, and a different start location for the Demo Chase.

>And a SUPERB arcade driving model, particularly with the first-rate FF
>support. This one's a no-brainer. I'm buying it the day it's released.

>Joe McGinn
>==========================================
>Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
>==========================================

by Jo » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

You don't have an analog joystick/wheel for driving games?

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

by Jo » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>Yup. I can't stand popup and this game has too much of it.

Turn up the draw-distance slider. Duh.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

by **Tempor** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

The building still pop-ups very close to your view with the slider to max.

> >Yup. I can't stand popup and this game has too much of it.

> Turn up the draw-distance slider. Duh.

> Joe McGinn
> ==========================================
> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
> ==========================================

by **Tempor** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> > Same thing as the unofficial one, except with Direct3D support,
two
> >recorded replays, and a different start location for the Demo Chase. New
are
> >the pedestrian, who are all men wearing the same exact thing. There's
hardly
> >anybody in Miami even with Ped. Density to the max. Their reaction is
really
> >stupid and robotic. They walk around and react like zombies by slowly
> >running away. The biggest flaw with this game is that everything seems to
be
> >in noclip mode. Pedestrian will actually run THROUGH the side of
buildings
> >like ghost if you chase them, and all the props STILL sink into the
ground
> >like quicksand when you knock into them.
> [snip]

> I agree with this part, even though I don't care too much about the
> pedestrians in general. Just like in Midtown Madness, they're just eye
> candy - you can't run them over (and I'm glad you can't, I'm not
> interested in***in this kind of game), but this also means you
> don't have to avoid them. You can ignore them, so they might just as
> well not be there.

Well, that's the designer being lazy. It's important that a city actually
has inhabitants on them, but if they're so dopey looking
and react if the most robotic way, than it's the designer's fault. I can't
ignore it, I like looking at little extraneous details. Thats's
why MM is able to create a better atmoshere.

- Show quoted text -

Yet the cars in Driver don't really adhere to any of the physics you and the
cops expereience.
They're able to stop on a dime at anything which is really stupid looking.
Well, I think MM
has cars crashing to simulate accidents. I mean, not everybody in a large
city is a perfect driver
and the random crashes at intersections adds atmoshere and cars are able to
maneuver around an
accident if the road is wide enough. The traffic in Driver just sits there
if there's an accident. Well,
I don't know about the cars hitting you from behind, but if you decrease
your MPH fairly drastically,
they won't react in time, or they're really impatient. :)

I disagree, the cars in Driver feel like driving rocks stuck to the road. I
still stand firm that the physics is a bit more robust in MM.
The car movement is more eye candy than anything, though that lean the car
makes on a fast turn helps the driving.
I don't recal the cars ever leave the road. The physics engine was fine when
it was iN Destruction Derby, but not for this IMO.

- Show quoted text -

Well, I care about the total experience and I can't find myself liking
Driver after playing MM extensively.
The 'cruise mode' in Driver was boring as hell. Don't expect anything
drastic to change, this is an official demo of a PSX port.

> --
> Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

cancellation

warned.

by **TRUSRS** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Carmageddon 2 is the greatest game ever made!!! Nothing feels better than
running over people and dogs!!!

rec.autos.simulators

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(

Official Driver demo still blows :(