On 09 Dec 2001 02:11:35 GMT, eldr...@aol.comSPAM-OFF (EldredP) wrote:
Just wanted to throw a couple of things in here, hopefully not a long
reply.
>I've looked at more than a few replays from the fast guys. A few observations,
>along with some questions...
>First - on many of the turns, the driver gets the car into a certain
>'attitude', and it stays at that attitude until corner exit. How do you do
>that? When I take a turn, the car sort of 'oscillates' in the turn.
The oscillation you are probably getting is due to the changes in
throttle states vs. momentum that you are getting through the
corners. This is effecting to a degree the state of the diff (i.e.
whether it is operating in coast or power mode) and also the
overall balance of the suspension and "tension" of the
suspension components.
Any degree of sideways motion is detracting from forward
motion, so eliminating this oscillation = faster times, but you
probably knew that already.
The way you do that is to try and maintain the same degree
of throttle through a corner such that the car never lurches
into a trailing throttle state (car is travelling faster than the
engine is driving it.
Now, of course this is not easy BUT is easier if you could
force yourself to do one thing.
If you enter a corner too quickly then there is no real way
you can maintain this balanced throttle through the corner
or you go off, so you'll need to ease off, this causes
instability which you have to deal with and it's going to
compromise that corner.
However :
MOST drivers do not suffer from entering corners too
quicky (certainly not fastish corners).
What many drivers do is slow down just a little too much
such thet they have a MARGIN FOR ERROR. What they
then do, having slowed too much is POWER INTO THE
APEX (or at least have more than a balanced throttle).
They realise that they gave it a bit too much gas and
ease off, enough to drop back into that comfort zone.
Then being there agan they feed in a bit too much gas,
realise this ease off, feed in more etc. etc.
It's not on/off throttle, just very slight variations, all the time
the car is lurching between power and coast, tight suspension/
loose suspension.
IF YOU FORCED YOURSELF ON TURN-IN TO MAINTAIN
AN EVEN/BALANCED THROTTLE UNTIL YOU HAD
CLEARED THE APEX AND COULD UNWIND LOCK TO
FEED IN MORE POWER then you would not get this
instability.
HOWEVER, YOU WOULD FIND THAT YOU WOULD
FIND THAT YOU ARE TRAVELLING TOO SLOWLY
AT/JUST AFTER THE APEX.
The reason is you SLOWED DOWN TOO MUCH.
So long as a driver continues to "accelerate" (even to
a very small degree) to the apex and hence, feels the
need to have that comfort zone under braking (WHICH
DOES'NT FEEL COMFORTABLE AS YOU ARE USED
TO ACCELERATING TO THE APEX) then he will
always be hampered to a degree by this instability in
the corners which is going to detract from his exit speed
which, as we all know, is the real key to going fast.
The fact that we often hear "you need to get on the
power as soon as possible" perhaps misleads these
drivers into thinking that they are in fact doing the
right thing by being able to get on the throttle before
the apex.
Of course, this is a huge generalisation, but I'd say it's
a common occurances in the replays I see..
>Second - I've noticed that the better drivers can brake in a MUCH shorter
>distance than I can. Thus, they can go deeper into a corner. Is that related
>to brake balance? Most 'fast' setups I download have a balance of 51 or 52%.
>When I attempt to drive such a car, I spend more time sliding backward than
>going forward.
A few things here (damn, loos as though this will be long).
FIRST : Are you looking at GPLRA's SPEED graph to see the
difference in braking points.
One common fault when looking at another drivers replay to
try and copy his braking points is that when you look at it,
you see the point at which the hose dives to determine where
he brakes. WRONG
This is is where his braking ACTUALLY TOOK EFFECT.
If this point was say JUST as the racing groove darkens at
Rouen on the long back straight. If you go out and aim to
brake at the same spot you will in fact BRAKE SUBSTANTIALY
LATER.
Although thats where his brakes took effect he made the
"decision" to brake a good 5-10 car lengths earlier and
actually, probably started to apply the brakes 4-5 cars
lengths earlier. (You travel a hell of a distance at that point
on the track in the 1 -2 10ths it takes to react.
Try this test. Pick a track and decide you are going to brake
EXACTLY at a certain point. The S/F line is a good example
(Monza/Rouen/?)
So, have it in your mind that you need to "go for the brakes"
at that point (which is how we treat braking points).
Save the replay and look at it to determine where you actually
would notice that braking took place (hence were you, if
you were looking at someone elses replay would think they
braked.
It will be later unless you cheated on the first test.
OK, so thats the perception thing out of the way, now to
application.
Anyone can brake later than you if they are able to enter the
corner quicker than you, and I have already that most drivers
enter (fastish) corners too slowly.
In your fourth point you mention that your tires do not squeal
IN the corner, if thats the case you are travelling slower than the
guy who's tires are squealing. Also, as your tires aren't squealing
and his are HE IS GETTING MORE GRIP.
A gently squealing tire is providing more grip than a slilent
tire. That maybe hard to believe but it is true.
The same is true for braking, if you are getting a gentle
squeal you should be gettuing better Grip (i.e. braking) than
a driver who's tires are silent. Most of the hotlaps I have seen
do have a gently squealing tire under brakes and in fact
through the majority of the corner.
Also, there are other factors that effect braking performance.
You've mentioned brake balance. The only way to brake hard
with a 50% or lower Brake Balance is to keep some gas on at
the same time. It's widely thought that thjis combination is
slightly exxagerated in GPL such that overal braking is increased.
I'm not sure but gas under braking helps keep the car more
stable, if the car is more stable you can brake harder. So, even
if there is no GPL quirk then this combination (gas+brake, more
rearward brake balance) should be beneficial.
Also, fuel load, ramp angles, camber, toe, spring softness,
dampers etc. etc. all effect braking performance.
Another Technique related thing is the application of brake. If you
applly the brake progressively (still quickly but not off/on) they
will bite better than if you use the brake pedal more like an on/off
switch. As I said earlier on perception, the hotlapper may have
applied some brake before you actually see the dip.
Then there the black art of trail-braking. Yes, you may be able to
make a very, very small gain, at some corners by braking right up
to the apex but in reality most trail-braking that is done (in the
real-world) is over with a fraction of a second after turn-in.
WHERE POSSIBLE YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE SOME
BRAKE APPLIED AT THE POINT OF TURN-IN.
OK, it's not always possible but the real key is NOT TO JUMP
OFF THE BRAKE JUST BEFORE TURN-IN
This will take weight off the front-tires which you need for better
turn-in grip.
This then goes back to my statement about most drivers entering
corners too slowly. Often this is because they HAVE come off the
brake before turn-in so THEY CANNOT ENTER MORE QUICKLY.
So, it's not just one thing you need to do, more a combination of
things, each one making the other one a bit easier/more do-able.
>Third - in the aforementioned short braking zone, there's no tire squeal. For
>me to brake light enough so the tires don't squeal, I'd have to brake about 5
>carlengths earlier than I do now, which is about 3 carlengths earlier than THEY
>do. What's the secret?
Unfortunately, there is generally only one term used to describe the
noise a tire makes, SQUEAL. In fact there are 2 used in rel-life and
I generally used 3 at Jim Russell. 4 if you count silent
SILENT
SQUEAK
SQUEAL
SQUAL
I'm sure these are descriptive enough for you to understand what I
mean.
IN essence SILENT is what you should hear on the straights. SQUEAK is
what you should hear under brakes and under acceleration out of a bend
or from a stanidng start/on change up/accel in a power heavy car.
SQUEAL is what you should hear on corner entry and up to the apex
(obv this varies with shallo vs. tight corners).
SQUAL is generally bad but OK on turn-in under a trailing or
balanced throttle BUT you should try and reduce this to SQUEAL as
soon as possible.
ANYTHING OTHER THAN SQUEAK ON EXITS IS GENERAL BAD
NEWS.
SILENCE AT ANY TIME FROM TURN-IN TO APEX IS GENERALLY
BAD.
Of course there are numerous variations and privisos. Some slick
tires make virtually no sound at all and when they do they can go
from SILENT TO SQUAL very quickly.
I'd expect SQUEAK/SQUEAL/SQUAL from any treaded tire. One thing
that has always puzzled me is that you rarely hear tire noise in video
footage of GPL era races. I'm sure they generated it and I have heard
it in historic racing with similar era cars even though driven pretty
conservatively. I can only assume that the sound recordings of the
day didn't have the range to pick it up and also the engines were
loud enough to drown it out.
I use a slightly louder skid sound in GPL to try and pick out these
differences so I'm not sure how accurate the default GPL one is.
>Fourth - As I stated before, the fast guys don't squeal the tires in the
>braking zone. But, they squeal in the turns. My replays are just the opposite
>- squealing in the braking zone, none in the turns. I can do it in the
>'sweeper' - type turns(more time to react?), but not the normal ones. If my
>tires are making noise in the turns, it's usually because something has gone
>horribly wrong, and I'll shortly be doing some gardening.
...
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