rec.autos.simulators

** While I understand that taking a corner depends on whether it is a 'fast'
or 'slow' one, I am still unsure exactly how it should be approached  ie.
from the outside or inside of it. Once in the bend I try to turn my wheels
into it to slide but far to often simply loose control. Also, at what point
I should increase throttle in a corner to push me out the other side. A
simple diagram from someone far more knowledgeable than me would be
appreciated.
Thanks   PJ

Find a good book shop in your area and grab a copy of "Going Faster;
Mastering the Art of Race Driving" by the Skip Barber school. Very
thorough and complete explanations of cornering, when and how to brake,
turn in, and how and when to get the power down for the exits. You won't
be disappointed.

Trips

For almost all corners in GPL it is best to have done all of your
"slowing" and downshifting prior to making the turn.  The cars are very
susceptible to being thrown off balance.  When you are braking you are
attempting at least two things, slow down for the turn and balance the
car.  Braking hard at the last minute will certainly off-balance the
car, throwing too much weight over the front wheels and making the rear
too light.  So as you begin to make your turn the front will stick and
the rear will want to come around to meet the front.  It is usually
helpful to apply slight throttle to help balance the car as you start to
make your turn.  

If you take your approach to fast and hard it will definately force you
to crawl through the turns.  Once you are comfortable with the car,
start playing with the brake bias.  So far, I've noticed that many of
the default setups tend to be slightly heavy towards front bias.  This
helps with the initial step of slowing down, but the tendency is to
throw too much weight on the front wheels and again bring the rear
around.  Since almost all of the braking in GPL is done while going
straight, I find that moving the bias back a little aids in going in
deeper and slowing down later.  You slow less at the beginning of your
braking, but you can apply heavier braking the deeper you go.  With the
bias more towards the front, the opposite happens, you slow much sooner,
but soon have to start backing off the brakes to maintain balance.  This
means you are too slow through the last 1/2 - 2/3 of your braking
distance.  (Of course this adapts to my style of driving and your milage
may vary.)

% ** While I understand that taking a corner depends on whether it is a 'fast'
% or 'slow' one, I am still unsure exactly how it should be approached  ie.
% from the outside or inside of it. Once in the bend I try to turn my wheels
% into it to slide but far to often simply loose control. Also, at what point
% I should increase throttle in a corner to push me out the other side. A
% simple diagram from someone far more knowledgeable than me would be
% appreciated.

Each turn is different.  There are some turns in GPL (because of my
driving style), that I can take faster by approaching on the inside (yes
I know this is a direct contridiction to the great masters).  However,
other turns I can take better by taking the approach of wide -- aim for
the apex -- move back out wide.  How you approach a turn depends on the
camber of the road, your braking approach, and even your setup.  But the
rule of thumb is the fastest way through a turn is a straight line.  In
other words, draw a line from your entrance into the turn so it just
"touches" the apex (center of the turn) and continues straight through
the exit.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

PJ,
Another thing that took me a while to learn, but helped immensely, was
to learn to brake in a straight line, on the outside entrance to the
corner, and then downshift to the gear you need for the corner. This
way you deal with the balancing and bouncing before you actually start
turning...
 if you're having trouble it's easier to take it easy before the apex,
say in 2nd or 3rd (for example) and get it stablized, and then pick up
acceleration as soon as you hit the apex and can aim the car at the
far outside exit. (think Nascar turns) . Don't worry too much about
sliding through the turns until you're comfortable with the corners
themselves. The accelerator plays a big part in sliding, by the way..

Watching the AI guys in front of you can sometimes be a bad idea,
because the way Jim Clark takes a corner might be completely
impractical for us, I remember in GP2 it would mess me up every time
in a race to watch the cars in front of me take the chicane, because I
had a different line that worked for me. You can, however, switch to
the AI cars in replay mode and sit back and watch from their 'in car'
mode to get tips.

(To  a lot of you this is common knowledge, but I can remember being
in this guy's shoes at one point and even after reading up on the
subject it still took a while to make sense.)
Have fun racing,,,

Rae

Certainly as a beginner do ALL your braking with the steering wheel
dead straight. Though I am not there yet, I guess some of the real GP
drivers (in '67 at least) would sometimes gently tap the brake IN a
turn to swing the tail around ever so slightly... to line up for
exiting the turn.

As a guide you can pretty much rely on the skid patches that precede
every corner that needs braking. Start by braking before them and, as
you improve, you'll soon enough be braking after the darkest part.

NOTE that skid patchs in corners are not from braking. The fastest
drivers push the very limit and squeal (ever so slightly) around the
bends.

They ARE a good guide to where you should be entering and exiting
turns - though they tend to have a somewhat robotic precision.

JB

Edmonton, AB,

The car is obviously fastest in a straight line, so try to straighten out
the corner to achieve maximum acceleration at the earliest possible moment.

Also, try to imagine where you want to be and the car is most likely to go
there.  Be progressive on the brakes and throttle - as a beginner to the new
physics model in GPL, it will be badness to brake during the corners (it
normally is anyway), so do all your braking in a straight line, then ease
off the brake and turn into the corner.  Try to maintain a small degree of
throttle all the way through the corner in order to balance the chassis and
prevent all manner of other bad things happening, then at the earliest
possible moment, start to feed on the throttle and gradually open it up.
Remember again that the tyre angles will always affect acceleration - get
the car pointed out of the turn and straightened up quickly.  Keep
practising one circuit (Monza, then Watkins Glen is the 2nd easiest), and
soon you'll find yourself more competitive with the AI and those miraculous
braking points the AI using will suddenly become more of a reality for you.

The AI is fast, but it's intended to be that way.  You'll get there.  I read
a post the other day from somebody who claimed he'd never felt so happy to
finish 3rd.  I know what he means - GPL is a real challenge, and the
programmers should be congratulated for implementing the AI as well as they
did.

Mike.

Get to the extreme left of the track. You might want to leave a little room
in case you veer left under braking.
Start braking as late as possible.
    (brake firmly but sensitively until your wheels are about to lock then
back off very slightly and start gently braking again.)
Complete your braking in time to get back onto the throttle before your turn
in. You need to have the car balanced before you enter the corner.
Take a line which 'clips' the right hand side of the track in mid turn. This
point is your apex and it might move depending on the preceding/following
turns and the sharpness of the corner.
Accelerate smoothly out of the turn allowing the inertia of the car to take
you out to the left hand side of the track again.
If you accelerate to soon or too hard your rears will overtake you. Squeeze
the throttle until you hear the tyres start to go and be prepared
to counter steer if you overdo it.

This is a good start.
If you're getting understeer then you can try slightly overlapping the
finish of your braking and the start of your turn in. I realise that this
contradicts
a good deal of the above but under braking the car's weight is largely on
the front tyres giving them an enormous amount of grip.
Takes some practice but it does work when you find the rhythm.

You won't know where to brake/accelerate until you know the track.
GPL really obeys the laws of physics. Look at the camber on the track and
try to use it.
ALSO: If you're hitting shift/R a lot try taking it easy until your tyres
warm up again cos resetting puts them back to being stone cold.

Hope that some of this helps.

Mike
(Stay with it - it's worth months of heartache for those few 'perfect' laps)

Mike

I'm sure others have commented on it, but when I drove GPL for the first
time I was daunted by the AI. But I was running on a 200mmx/48Mb + Voodoo2
and was reluctant to move the slider up from 5 opponents. Within an hour
of GPL arriving, so did the rest of the kit for my Celeron upgrade. Took
me two days to stop driving and get the hardware sorted out, but now (at a
conservative C400/64Mb/V2) I usually sacrifice the frame rate at starts
and race against 19. With the full field there's a broad spread of
drivers, with plenty slower than I am... though even they seem rather more
adept at staying on the track.

For those unable to upgrade I suggest losing all detail (slider to full
left), ditch as much of the optional fx as you can bear, and run at
512x384. It won't be quite as pleasant as 1024 with full detail, but the
AI is worth it.

Andrew McP

A great way to get a feel for a track is to take a ride with the AI drivers.
They are super smooth (too smooth the ***s!)

Even better, watch the replays that came with the game (or download some for
the demo) and ride in-car with them.  Just don't try to emulate the
hotlappers yet!

Peter