rec.autos.simulators

About the most exciting thing about the 3dfx patch is to watch
the 3dfx logo spin. The only real improvement is that any jaggies
that were present are now really gone. The cars & track labeling
are blurry, and the crowd is now faded so that it almost looks the
same as if there is no one in the stands. The worst part is that
the framerate is *DEFINITELY* worse. This is rebooting into
DOS. This is also not what a 3dfx patch should be about. I am
not thrilled about those 2 lines in the incar***pit when you are
using anti-aliasing. The graphics should be *MUCH* better than
the original version and the framerate should be *MUCH*
improved. IMHO this is a freaking joke, especially when compared
to a real 3dfx game like F1RS. I am thinking that this is a port
of a rendition 3D version and not really a true 3dfx Glide version.

Bogus. Bogus. Bogus. All it takes is racing against a full 39
(or whatever at the short tracks) car field at Martinsville to see
the performance difference.

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<SNIP>

You said it all right there. N2 was NOT designed for 3dfx. It was
designed for Rendition. I think that they got the patch out as fast as
they could for the screaming masses.

--
Mike (TEN ID:mpete)
--
Mike's Nascar World
http://www.mnworld.com

Stop on by, what can it hurt?

Dont use the patch then if you think its so bad. Go back and play it the way
it was before you installed the patch. Dont forget that N2 is NOT a real
3dfx game like F1RS is like you say, and papyrus made this for us all for
free!! They did not have to do this at all. It is just your opinion that is
should be this and should be that, it shouldnt be anything, the damn thing
was free, you didnt have to play a cent for it.
I could understand people complaining about it if we had to pay for it
though, then there would be reason....

SS

On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:44:34 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

Seriosly, on my machine (Pentium II 233, Voodoo2) the NASCAR 2 3Dfx
patch is a very nice improvement over the software version.  The
graphics are sharper and the fps are obviously high as everything is
very smooth; even running in the full field with all graphics options
turned on.  I even caused a massive wreck (which usually causes more
jumpiness than anything) and was astounded at how pretty the wreck
was!  Check out the screen shots I uploaded at http://www.op3dfx.com
in today's (18-Mar-98) news.

I have a feeling a lot of people are experiencing texture thrashing on
the Voodoo but cannot say for certain hence the reports of low fps and
poor textures.  (The game gives the option of low or high res
textures.  I configured mine for high res.)

Sam

says...

Well, I'm not surprised by this.  instead of thanking Papyrus and 3dfx for
working together and making this FREE patch (which is only a beta anyway and
hasn't been released officially), you are complaining about it.

Yes, this is a port of a rendition game.  They didn't start from scratch to
reprogram the whole thing to use just 3dfx for free.  Can't understand why,
maybe they want to stay in business. How old is this game? Where on the box
does it claim 3dfx support?

And the framerate is worse?  Worse than what?  It is at least as good on my
system (righteous 3D and 3D blaster v1000) compared with the rendition version.  
If you have a v2x00 rendition card (which is a newer model that the comparative  
voodoo 1 cards), the the rendition version will outperform the 3dfx.  

And it's a joke compared to F1RS, the latest game out? Well, there's progress.

If GPL isn't better then I'll be complaining with you, but on this one Papyrus
have done us a favour, and I'm appreciative.

brian

I'm sure I won't. And why is it nessissary for you to Mother Hen
me and instruct me like this?

Hey I can understand that. But just because it was free doesn't mean
everyone must love it. I see no reason why we can not discuss it. Oh...
We can discuss it, we just can't do it negatively...

If it is shit I'll say it is. If you don't like it, killfile me, or pass up
my posts.

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That free thing is no excuse for not being able to talk honestly about
the patch.

I never said it did. It still does not mean we cannot talk about it. The
fact
that they are attempting 3dfx support is a good thing as they are seeing
the writing on the wall.

version.

Worse than on my P5-200MMX and Diamond Stealth 3D 3000 (VirGE) card
in 2D. I have a Monster 3D. The frame rate is definately worse.

progress.

There is a flightsim called Jetfighter3 which is just about as old. Mission
Studios kicked some serious ass and put out a 3dfx patch for that game.
Visuals and framerate went WAY up (even though by all accounts it is
rather washed out like the stands in N2-3dfx). JF3 didn't boast 3dfx
on the box either, and that isn't really the point.

I never said I wasn't appreciative, I am actually. Why is it I cannot
point out some things about the patch that I dislike? I may well end
up using the patch if I can figure out how to eliminate those 2 lines
and increase framerate.

FWIW, I play Nascar 2 all the time and do appreciate the fact that
the 3dfx version shows the track MUCH clearer. For all I know a
Voodoo2 card would fix my problems with framerate...

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Somebody said..

To all 4 meg 3dfx owners.
I don't think that you've so far considered the full ramifications of
the fact that N2 was designed for Rendition cards.  It's well known
that  Voodoo1 cards render faster than V1000 cards, But V1000 has some
other charecteristics which make it better for N2.

1.  Dynamic memory allocation.  The Voodoo1 cards always have exactly
2mb of framebuffer/ 2mb texture.  N2 is 640x480, triple buffered, and
not Z buffered, so on a V1000, 2.9Mb of the 4MB is dedicated to
textures.

2. Better texture management.  V1000 uses DMA busmastering (the same
capability that makes ULTRA DMA harddrives so fast) to load textures
from system memory to card memory.

3. Optional 4-bit mode.  V1000 can load textures as 4-bit images (this
only aplies to the indivdiual textures, the game of course still runs in
16 bit mode)  4-bit textures effectivly double the ammount of textures
loaded in card memory, with a very negligible loss in picture quality.

It has been noted before that finding a way to accomodate the 2mb
texture memory problem was the main factor which delayed the N2 3dfx for
so long.  Try using the environment variable options to reduce texture
resolution.

Kevin G.

HH

It may well be...

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On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:20:33 -0800, "Steve"

I guess you don't play N2 much then :-) The patch blows plain and
simple...

Oh.. IMHO of course :-)

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I believe that the reason the patch doesnt work as good as it should is because
N2 was designed to run with Rendition, not 3Dfx.  N3 should make up for this
when it is released in the fall. I am disappointed too, in fact, I went out and
bought a Voodoo2 as soon as I found out the patch came out.  Talk about
disappointed.

Hey I know someone else that bought it because of the 3dfx patch...umm.
hehehe...oh well its not great...spectacular....or life changing but all
in all I would rather have it than not.

PAPA DOC

So did a friend of mine. Before he bought it, I warned him that some
3dfx implimentions are porked. Oh well... Looks like he's going to
have to drop another $350 on a MB and pII233 to get this to run
smoothly.

I like (or can live with) everything about this patch - except the
frame rate. It is definately worse with the 3dfx running. In a game
like this, frame rate is very important. Neither one of us intends on
running in 3dfx mode. I guess we get what we pay for. Thanks for
nothing Papy, but thanks for trying too.

Regards.