rec.autos.simulators

3Dfx N2 patch.

Jspencer

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Jspencer » Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:00:00

I'll put money on it that it still wont have AA.Since the Voodoo doesnt support
 it,They probly wont take the time to include it.
Brian

Dave Henr

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Dave Henr » Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:00:00


    Well the only couple of titles I can think of quickly that support
both Voodoo and Rendition are Tomb Raider and Ef2k.  There is AA in
both of the Rendition titles, but I don't think either Voodoo version
has it...So if your expecting AA just because your finally getting a
voodoo patch...I wouldn't hold my breath.

Dave Henrie

#99 The Pits Touring Car Championship

Jspencer

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Jspencer » Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:00:00

Yep,Even though the 3Dfx boxes say Anti Aliasing as a feature...Ther Voodoo has
 no AA support.It has to do it through glide(Software based AA)Which is MUCH
 slower.
Brian

Roger Littl

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Roger Littl » Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:00:00

But the end result is MUCH faster!  I know, I have both.

Jo

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Jo » Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:00:00


>>    Well the only couple of titles I can think of quickly that support
>>both Voodoo and Rendition are Tomb Raider and Ef2k.  There is AA in
>>both of the Rendition titles, but I don't think either Voodoo version
>>has it...So if your expecting AA just because your finally getting a
>>voodoo patch...I wouldn't hold my breath.
>Yep,Even though the 3Dfx boxes say Anti Aliasing as a feature...Ther Voodoo has
> no AA support.It has to do it through glide(Software based AA)Which is MUCH
> slower.

But the voodoo DOES have bilenear filtering, with no performance cost
and no programming time cost (you just have to turn it on). And for
most ganmes bilinear filtering offers a pretty similar effect to
anti-aliasing.

Joe

Dave Henr

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Dave Henr » Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:00:00

  Hi Aaron, AA is short for Anti-Aliasing.  Which is a color technique
that smooths the jaggies on most images.  For indycar Racing 2 the
cars look sharp and smooth, but the Rendition version of N2 does not
have AA and so the cars keep that shifting blurry look.
  AA btw, was developed for desktop publishing to smooth out the
letters on the newfangled fonts on GUI based systems(ha! another bunch
of initials!)


>What exactly is an "AA" version of a patch?
>Aaron



>>>I'll put money on it that it still wont have AA.Since the Voodoo doesnt
>support
>>> it,They probly wont take the time to include it.
>>>Brian
>>    Well the only couple of titles I can think of quickly that support
>>both Voodoo and Rendition are Tomb Raider and Ef2k.  There is AA in
>>both of the Rendition titles, but I don't think either Voodoo version
>>has it...So if your expecting AA just because your finally getting a
>>voodoo patch...I wouldn't hold my breath.

>>Dave Henrie

>>#99 The Pits Touring Car Championship

Dave Henrie

#99 The Pits Touring Car Championship

Dave Henr

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Dave Henr » Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:00:00

O
  I believe I read here that the N2 team took out the AA to meet
specifications for a minimun system requirement that had already been
decided.  AA was there, but to include it would have forced the team
to accept higher min. standards...(I don't know if Papyrus or Sierra
set the limits)

Dave Henrie

#99 The Pits Touring Car Championship

Mike Radl

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Mike Radl » Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:00:00


>I really don't know why N2 doesn't have AA yet since it was already
>implemented in the engine.  All I know is Rendition/Sierra have not been
>able to deliver on the promise their hardware.

Jim Sokoloff mentioned on this newsgroup a while back that AA
had to be removed from the graphics engine with some effort before
the release of N2 because the marketing guys felt that it raised the
memory requirements too high for the average Joe. :-----(

Mike Radler

Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

CPDRKITE

3Dfx N2 patch.

by CPDRKITE » Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:00:00

If this is true, then I would have to wonder, if it was coded already (or at
 least partially), why didn't they offer it as an option that could be turned
 on or off depending on the system it was used on?  If this wasn't possible,
 then why not offer a patch that would add it at a later time?  IMO, and
 speaking from ignorance, I'd have to think that it was never started in the
 first place.

ChrisP

Mike Radl

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Mike Radl » Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:00:00


>If this is true, then I would have to wonder, if it was coded already (or at
> least partially), why didn't they offer it as an option that could be turned
> on or off depending on the system it was used on?  If this wasn't possible,
> then why not offer a patch that would add it at a later time?  IMO, and
> speaking from ignorance, I'd have to think that it was never started in the
> first place.

AA was already in the graphics engine. They used it in ICR2. Maybe
Jim could shed some light on why it was not made an option instead
being totally yanked to save memory. I am not familiar with what's
involved so I can't even speculate as to whether or not it would have
been easy to set it up so that it could be switched on and off.

Here's a quote from Jim's post,
Jim Sokoloff (Former Papyrus employee) wrote on 9/5/97:

Mike Radler

Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

Jim Sokolof

3Dfx N2 patch.

by Jim Sokolof » Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:00:00



> >If this is true, then I would have to wonder, if it was coded already (or at
> > least partially), why didn't they offer it as an option that could be turned
> > on or off depending on the system it was used on?  If this wasn't possible,
> > then why not offer a patch that would add it at a later time?  IMO, and
> > speaking from ignorance, I'd have to think that it was never started in the
> > first place.

> AA was already in the graphics engine. They used it in ICR2. Maybe
> Jim could shed some light on why it was not made an option instead
> being totally yanked to save memory. I am not familiar with what's
> involved so I can't even speculate as to whether or not it would have
> been easy to set it up so that it could be switched on and off.

Three reasons:

1. The game barely fit in the minimum machine spec. (Can't remember if
the real problem was DOS or Win95; if the memory spec was the same,
you can bet it was Win95.) Having the code lying around unused still
takes up space, though not near as much as having the anti-aliasing
data being actively kept track of.

2. The anti-aliasing in ICR2 was wrong. While it offered an
improvement to the look of the screen, that improvement came at the
cost of degrading some scenes. Making it work "right" was not in the
schedule, for reasons of engineering time and #1 above.

3. The graphics engine for N2 was a total re-write, though it was free
to draw on code from the ICR2 engine which did support anti-aliasing,
even in a slightly broken fashion.

Sierra marketing or other business folks decided what would go on the
minimum machine spec sticker and Papyrus wrote a game which barely
conformed to that sticker.

---Jim

jh..

3Dfx N2 patch.

by jh.. » Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:00:00



much snipped away

And there is the rub, the suits have dictated the engineering of the
project. I suppose quite a few people got fairly rich with the buyout
(as witnessed by the exodus of fairly high players), but the product
has suffered IMHO with Ken Williams and company (is he really as much
of an SOB as he looks in all his pictures?).  The Papyrus sims always
were a bit ahead of the hardware curve so I don't see the point. The
minimum requirements are marketing crap. The only specs that mean
anything are the recommended requirements. Once a person with the
minimum requirement machine buys a game to fit that spec he/she will
be disappointed and will see right through it (as well as scream
***y ripoff).

If a sim is GOOD ENOUGH, people will buy the hardware to support it.
Falcon 3.0 sold more upgraded machines than any other title, I'm
willing to bet.

Jeff Haas


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