rec.autos.simulators

I picked up F1RS about a week ago and have been thrilled with it.  Graphics
are top notch, AI is good, configurablity is good--basically, it's one hot
game.  So, yesterday, I loaded up CPR (which I had retired after seeing
F1RS) for what I thought would be one last hurrah, BUT...despite CPR's lousy
AI and duller graphics, compared to F1RS, it absolutely excels in giving the
rush of speed.  I pulled up Surfer's Paradise (using the excellent modified
track available at http://www.racesimcentral.net/) and was dizzied by the
sensation of speed.  Also the sound in CPR, after playing F1RS, is sooo much
better at conveying a feeling of acceleration.

After seeing F1RS, I thought CPR would quietly erode away on my hard drive,
but now I'm going to give it a second chance.  Now that I'm over F1RS's eye
candy, game play and the thrill of racing has, one again, become most
important.  All CPR needs at this point is some beefed up AI and improved
frame rate for it to jump to the front.

Dave

What kind of system are you using? I get a better sense of speed on F1
Racing
(unless I'm doing ovals on CPR, which actually ARE faster...) also - the
enigine sounds for F1 Racing (which I agree think are terrible) can be
changed. There
are a number of sounds people have created and you can download them from
most any F1 Racing site.

Tom

Pentium 200MMX with Voodoo2

I'll have to look into those new sounds!

As far as sense of speed, I'm not talking about the actual speed of the
cars, but rather the impression of speed.  I definitely think CPR has a
substantial edge here.  My guess is that it has to do with a combination of
the sound, the jostling of the***pit, and perhaps even the head panning.
When I'm accelerating up a straight away, I just don't get the same sense of
increasing speed in F1RS as I get in CPR.  Don't get me wrong, F1RS is still
amazing (and probably better overall), but in this area (and IMHO), CPR is
just better.

Dave

No, not true. Simply not true.  I am a stuanch supporter of CPR , love the
game, but in every area F1RS excels.

The feeling of speed for me is lost in CPR due to the poor frame rates even
with the glide patch.  F1RS *really* makes you -feel- the speed and on those
straightaways when that 90 degree trun is approaching makes me pucker right
up. I can actually RACE with a field of cars in F1RS an have a challenge,
the AI in CPR is kamakazi at best and at worst a real hidernce, I just never
got hte feeling these guys knew I was there.  After a race I had nothing but
gripes about the driuvers.

In F1RS there is a real feeling of pride over having hung onto 10th place
out of 12 cars when you had to hold off those last two cars and fight for
that position.  Passing in F1RS is a JOY!  what a great rush when you see an
opportunity a just grab it and it pays off!  better still when the drive in
front make just that little bit of a mistake and leaves a door open for you
to accerlerate into - you can take it or leave it but they happen and they
are great!  A race in F1RS is really a race, sensation of speed is there for
sure, the sound paks availalble are passable, but no great shakes IMHO, I
like to swap them out a lot.

But man, what a game! the most imerrsive SIM I have played in a LONG time
(and F-15 is second - good days to be a gamer and speed freak)

edk

I agree with you.

The sounds of CART:PR are a 9/10 and F1RS are a 3/10.  The new stereo sounds
that fans have created are a gigantic improvement, but still only bring it
up to a 5 or 6/10.  The F1RS sounds (original or patched) don't have any
timbre to them--they are just straight "noise."  The CART:PR engine has
distinctive idle, full throttle and cruising sounds as well as a vastly
superior dynamic range in the recordings that were used.  F1RS sounds like a
saw not an internal combustion engine.

The sense of speed in CART:PR is also superior.  Although the graphics
overall are superior in F1RS, including the critical how far up the road can
you see clearly and how clearly can  you see other cars, CART:PR's sensation
of blasting past objects and walls is unsurpassed (with or without the Glide
patch).  However, a very fast machine is needed to get over the low
frame-rate hurdle of CART:PR.  With low frame rates, CART:PR just plain
sucks.  (I have a K6-233, Canopus Pure3D).

If F1RS had the sounds from CART, it would rank a 96% on my scale (which
ignores the horrid menu system).  All it needs is to get rid of the "canned"
spins that occur when you oversteer (a la GP2), since it is next to
impossible to recover from the beginnings of a spin.  I don't like doing a
180 at the very tail end of a slide when I am practically stopped by the
time the car magically spins on some invisible axis and leaves me pointing
the wrong way.  With those gone, I would give it a 98%.

CART:PR is a great driving experience if you have the track to yourself.
The handling model is better than F1RS, the sounds are great, and the
graphics are a bit blocky but make up for it in the sensation of speed
department.  The horrid AI and arm's length list of glaring bugs and
unfinished features allow only a 65% in my books.

Where can I find a Glide patch for CPR?

Thanks.

Your key phrase here is that "the feeling of speed ... is lost in CPR due to
the poor frame rates..."  I am playing on Pentium 200MMX with the glide
patch and a CL V2 12MB card, so frame rates are actually quite acceptable on
CPR (~25 fps).  If you are using a lower end machine, then I will most
certainly agree that the feeling of speed would be lost.  But I don't
disagree that lousy frame rates in general are a CPR Achilles heel.

Dave

Try http://members.home.net/getzen/

Dave

I also look at my CART:PR with a resigned expresion. I do want to play
it, because of its sense of speed and driver feedback, but it is a
pointless game without the AI. I hope that MS bring out a proper patch.

BTW. I have a Pentium II 233 and a Canopus Pure 3D and with CART I have
seen frame rates in the high 40s to low 50s (with triglide.dll
installed) - I tell no lie but the frame rate counter might be!

Tony.

Oh absolutely.  I have a P200MMX w/ a PURE 3D and a VIPER 330 both will do
framerates in the high 50's when the***pit is turned of, but I want it on!

I checkd the frame counter with the glide patch and still w/ the***pit on
they were in the high20' s *maybe*, not good enough for me.

I just finished a GP race weekend at SILVERSTONE and got beat bad (I hate it
when you get into it with a passing driver and you wind up lossing there is
virtually no way to come from behind if you sipn out)  I was in 2nd for
almost the whole thing.

After it was all over I realized that F1RS will probably NEVER be off my
harddrive until its somehow bested, I doubt it wil happen any time soon.
FANTASTIC game

edk

: BTW. I have a Pentium II 233 and a Canopus Pure 3D and with CART I have
: seen frame rates in the high 40s to low 50s (with triglide.dll
: installed) - I tell no lie but the frame rate counter might be!

I'd believe it.  I upgraded to a P2 300 over the weekend and without the
***pit and force feedback turned off, at times I saw it push 58-60 with a
voodoo1 card.  I could run races with the***pit on and hold near 30 all
the time with the exception of race start which was pretty painful.

My question is, does a Voodoo 2 card do anything to improve this or is it
that much of a CPU hog that it is still a processor problem?  I'm thinking
it is, but thought I'd ask.

% : BTW. I have a Pentium II 233 and a Canopus Pure 3D and with CART I have
% : seen frame rates in the high 40s to low 50s (with triglide.dll
% : installed) - I tell no lie but the frame rate counter might be!

% I'd believe it.  I upgraded to a P2 300 over the weekend and without the
%***pit and force feedback turned off, at times I saw it push 58-60 with a
% voodoo1 card.  I could run races with the***pit on and hold near 30 all
% the time with the exception of race start which was pretty painful.

% My question is, does a Voodoo 2 card do anything to improve this or is it
% that much of a CPU hog that it is still a processor problem?  I'm thinking
% it is, but thought I'd ask.

In theory (according to the benchmarks) a Voodoo2 with a PII 300 should
come close to doubling the frame rate.  Of course this assumes that the
3dfx patch is fully optimized.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

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