rec.autos.simulators

by **Charles Ma** » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Here are two criticisms about the GPL demo:

This is a very difficult sim to drive, like all Papyrus sims. Even with a
Nascar Pro Wheel, it is difficult to stay in the racing groove. Papyrus
sims seem to have a skittirish and slippery driving model that makes driving
a straight, (especially one with a slight kink in it,) not that
straightforward and that makes braking and cornering very difficult. I am
not quite sure if driving as if one were on ice is an accurate portrayal of
real race driving. But then again, I've never driven a race car. Perhaps
someone who has driven a race car can enlighten me about this.

The straw bales don't act like straw bales in this sim. A car slamming into
them might as well be slamming into an armco barrier. This is a very major
problem because with realistic damage on, you are going to destroy your car
by just clipping one of these hazards. The bales should be able to give way
and cause mimimal damage, unless they are right up against the armco.
Also, there are very little of these things around so in most cases you end
up slamming into the armco. More bales, and those of the forgiving variety,
are definitely required.

by **Mike Vanlandingha** » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

>Here are two criticisms about the GPL demo:

>This is a very difficult sim to drive, like all Papyrus sims. Even with a
>Nascar Pro Wheel, it is difficult to stay in the racing groove. Papyrus
>sims seem to have a skittirish and slippery driving model that makes
driving
>a straight, (especially one with a slight kink in it,) not that
>straightforward and that makes braking and cornering very difficult. I am
>not quite sure if driving as if one were on ice is an accurate portrayal of
>real race driving. But then again, I've never driven a race car. Perhaps
>someone who has driven a race car can enlighten me about this.

I've never driven a race car, but I've driven high performance cars very
fast, and my take on this is that at very high speed cars react like they
are on ice (actually the sensation in the sims is more like compact snow and
ice to me). The big difference between sims and reality is absence of
G-force inputs. Driving on compact snow and ice can result in slides and
skids with very little G-force inputs (or pitch and roll, which is very
little in a race care compared to a non-race car), which is a very
uncomfortable feeling. Increase the speed a little or forget for a moment
your on ice and the sensation is amplified. Very little control iputs can
result in even bigger slides and skids with even less G-force inputs.

I think it just requires a suspension of disbelief. When you start leaning
over in your chair (with GPL's 3D/virtual cocpit/wide screen I find myself
leaning forward and backward slightly to compensate for acceleration and
braking) your disbelief is just about suspended. :-)

I wouldn't be suprised if the straw bales act a lot more like straw bales
when the final version comes out. Probably be more of them, too. This is
only the demo. I read somewhere there will be dirt and dust off track also.
I'd like to see the spectators jump back when I smack the fences. Or cheer
a little louder when I do one of those triple-with-half-twist endos.

by **Wolfgang Prei** » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

>Here are two criticisms about the GPL demo:

>This is a very difficult sim to drive, like all Papyrus sims. Even with a
>Nascar Pro Wheel, it is difficult to stay in the racing groove. Papyrus
>sims seem to have a skittirish and slippery driving model that makes driving
>a straight, (especially one with a slight kink in it,) not that
>straightforward and that makes braking and cornering very difficult. I am
>not quite sure if driving as if one were on ice is an accurate portrayal of
>real race driving. But then again, I've never driven a race car. Perhaps
>someone who has driven a race car can enlighten me about this.

Have you ever driven a very powerful, very fast car? Not necessarily a
racecar, just a car with more power than it can handle safely? Try to
imagine an average street car of today with five times the power this
car has, but no other modifications. This will give you an idea of how
those old cars handled. I think the amount of work you have to do as a
driver to keep the car on track in GPL is reasonable.
However, I believe that an arcade mode for the occasional driver or
beginner is needed, or GPL will be wonderful for us sim-heads, but
unappealing to the "*** masses."

The bales don't react realistically insofar as they don't move when
hit. OTOH, a straw bale is not as fluffy as you might think. A bale
the size of a car weighs easily a few hundred pounds, even more when
wet. It is possible to severly bend your suspension when hitting one.
And I assume that the number and distribution of the bales reflects
reality.

--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Uni des Saarlands \ and U.S. law. You have been warned.

by **Chris Squie** » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Move the Steering Linearity bar all the way to the Right. (non-linear) This
quieted the "twitchy" feel of the steering...

>Here are two criticisms about the GPL demo:

>This is a very difficult sim to drive, like all Papyrus sims. Even with a
>Nascar Pro Wheel, it is difficult to stay in the racing groove. Papyrus
>sims seem to have a skittirish and slippery driving model that makes
>driving a straight, (especially one with a slight kink in it,) not that
>straightforward and that makes braking and cornering very difficult.

by **Mark Youn** » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Hello It is a game not a real car. Feelings and sensations of real driving
can never be
duplicated in a computer game or sim if you find the term less demeaning.

.de>...

by Jo » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

>However, I believe that an arcade mode for the occasional driver or
>beginner is needed, or GPL will be wonderful for us sim-heads, but
>unappealing to the "*** masses."

Maybe. I thought I only enjoyed arcade racers, but I'm loving the GPL
demo because of the realistic driving feel. I think it's the first
driving sim that has a realistic enought feel for me to really enjoy
(haven't played F1RS yet, but I've driven all the others).

Joe

by **Matthew V. Jessic** » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> OTOH, a straw bale is not as fluffy as you might think.

Radio report after the recent tornado in Alabama:

Someone lost 4 cars, including his truck which
was ruined by a flying hay bale.

- Matt

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 12 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> >Here are two criticisms about the GPL demo:

> >This is a very difficult sim to drive, like all Papyrus sims. Even with a
> >Nascar Pro Wheel, it is difficult to stay in the racing groove. Papyrus
> >sims seem to have a skittirish and slippery driving model that makes driving
> >a straight, (especially one with a slight kink in it,) not that
> >straightforward and that makes braking and cornering very difficult. I am
> >not quite sure if driving as if one were on ice is an accurate portrayal of
> >real race driving. But then again, I've never driven a race car. Perhaps
> >someone who has driven a race car can enlighten me about this.

> Have you ever driven a very powerful, very fast car? Not necessarily a
> racecar, just a car with more power than it can handle safely? Try to
> imagine an average street car of today with five times the power this
> car has, but no other modifications. This will give you an idea of how
> those old cars handled. I think the amount of work you have to do as a
> driver to keep the car on track in GPL is reasonable.
> However, I believe that an arcade mode for the occasional driver or
> beginner is needed, or GPL will be wonderful for us sim-heads, but
> unappealing to the "*** masses."

What about with a G3 Brabham with all aids. It's hard to tell for a
sim head if this is easy enough for the novice. Is it?

- Show quoted text -

Especially given that everyone is hitting them - very strategically
placed :) I think complaining about the bales is lame, especially at
this point. There is not even a damage model in the demo! I'd guess that
in the full game that hitting one hard will result in damage and that's
all I need.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 12 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Try driving from the "rear exterior" view (F10).

This mode is easier.

I would guess that this will be the "arcade" view in the final release.

> This is a very difficult sim to drive,

--
Bruce.
(At home)

by **Wolfgang Prei** » Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:00:00

>> However, I believe that an arcade mode for the occasional driver or
>> beginner is needed, or GPL will be wonderful for us sim-heads, but
>> unappealing to the "*** masses."

> What about with a G3 Brabham with all aids. It's hard to tell for a
>sim head if this is easy enough for the novice. Is it?

It's o.k. for the novice who wants to become an adept, but I'm sure
the average kid will fall asleep on the backstraight because the car
is so slow. What is needed is some sort of roller-coaster: very fast
and spectacular with little or no opportunity to make a mistake.

--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Uni des Saarlands \ and U.S. law. You have been warned.

by **Lutz Goerk** » Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> 1) I just do not get the sensation that I'm in control of the car -- it
> seems to be acquaplaning. This is a major problem with all Papyrus sims.
> I've been racing Indycar2 on and off for two years now and have never
> accquired a feel for driving it. Same goes for GPL, one really has to
> concentrate too *** the steering inputs. Furthermore, the braking
> inputs just do not seem to be right either just as in Indycar2/Nascar2.

> Papyrus should take a page out of Microprose's GP2 book on how to model
> steering and brake inputs.

Above isn`t about F1RS. But that one has to concentrate too *** the
steering inputs seems a major problem of many GP Sims.
EX-F1 Pilot Bertrand Gachot about F1RS while driving it with a steering
Wheel during a live-talkshow:

That`s more difficult than a real F1. Very good simulated but more difficult
to drive. (...)

I still like F1RS though.
IMHO Crammond is the only one who`s made the right balance between drive-
play- and steerabillity and acurate simulation.
It`s not that diffcult to drive a real F1 cars straight! (Bertrand Gachot
about F1RS)
GPL on the other hand is so difficult to drive cause the cars of this time
were so unstable (with 410hp and no wings).
So they got it right for me.

Lutz
--
Home: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Martin Urs** » Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:00:00

: It`s not that diffcult to drive a real F1 cars straight! (Bertrand Gachot
: about F1RS)

He should know! Bertrand once drove his car down the front
straight of the Hungaroring without a steering wheel!

Martin
Nigel Mansell RIP!

rec.autos.simulators

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms

GPL Demo -- two criticisms