rec.autos.simulators

David G Fisher

[snip]

I'll give it a go but if it goes the way I fear I'll make an early exit.

cya there

Sorry Neil, but I've had it up to here with this defeatist attitude which
permeates throughout NASCAR online.

If everybody just kept their mind on the job and gave the other drivers the
credit they'd like to receive in return, the number of yellows would be
halved overnight.

Expecting it to suck (or thinking the track or setup sucks) will deminish
the amount of effort en concentration you're willing to put into the race in
order to make it work and that only contributes to drag a race down. It
really does help if everyone's keyed up at the prospect of the race. It also
keeps morale up if there is a couple of successive quick yellows.

So cheer up, think positive!! ;-))

Jan.
=---

Not defeatist Jan - a pessimist is merely an optimist with experience of
life ;)

No arguments here but experience has shown is isn't so much a matter of
keeping the mind on the job as basic car control.

I don't think any track sucks. If anything, I go better on short tracks road
courses - it's only the SS that bore me to tears. Fearing the worst does not
imply I would put in less offort or concentration. A more sensitive chap
could get annoyed at the mere suggestion ;)

I am positive Jan. I was positive we were going to give no yellows a chance.
I appreciate I am in a minority in this respect and I always go with what
the group decides. However, I do not expect to have my committment
questioned when I do voice my opinion. My opinion is this: if we go back to
yellows on with no other mechanism for keeping the yellows down other than
hoping for the best I know that my Saturday night 'fun-factor' will be
diminished. I'm not basing this on pessimism just on a reasonably long
experience with RASCAR. My last intent was to 'piss people off' - I've
always thought of myself as a reasonable guy. If my swimming against the
mainstream opinion is getting on people's nerves I'll withdraw. In fact,
I'll start with tonight.

Regards

Since I'm not in RASCAR any longer (and hence, not on the mailing
list), and since there's almost no message traffic on the forum
anymore, I have to rely on stuff being posted here.

Of course, it could be something as simple as a typo, or something
done out of habit.

Hmmmm...  Sounds like what I had been saying all along.

Again, sounds like what I was saying. Be careful here, Neil.

:)

A pessimistic view is not nescessarily a realistic view. There is no real
reason to believe tonights race will feature an excessive amount of yellows.
It would unrealistic to expect no yellows (as in no yellows occuring). Some
things just can't be avoided. In view of the week he'd had, I'm sure Kurt
Busch would have avoided getting into Sterling Marlin if he could have
helped it, but things just happen and you have to get on with what results
of the situation.

Everybody in RASCAR has enough car control to avoid the avoidable, it's all
in the mind. It's all about discipline in preparation and on the track.  One
either has to discipline oneself to practise before the race and turn up
well prepared (that means unlikely to have to explore the unknown in order
to react to an on-track situation) or one has to discipline oneself to stay
within one's basic capabilities. The time to find out you can't hold a
particular line in a fight for position is in practise, not during the race.
One can't "try" to overtake another driver in the race. One has to know
whether one can do it that way or not before deciding to "try" and take that
position away.

I believe that raising awareness and raising group morale (more on that
later) will benifit the races and that's why I challenge those who focus on
the negative.

Translation: "I lack the discipline to stay focussed at Super Speedways."
<vwg>

We might be getting into semantics here, but I consider it a logic
impossibility to give a race your full attention if you decide in advance it
will have to meet certain criteria for it to keep your attention. I don't
even mind if that point of view upsets you... I have to take the edge of
that speed of yours in some way or another. ;-))

There was an overwhelming majority that wanted to run Darlington with
yellows off (mine was the minority vote on that one), but I understood the
vote as being specific to that race, which appears to have been the correct
interpretation.

Running without yellows is being considered, but you have to admit there
hasn't been a lot of feedback on the issue. There's been almost zero talk
about Darlington. I think people have clammed up for fear of causing another
blow-out. Some are clearly looking at me to make some choice comments on
several incidents (not all of them involving contact), but I haven't seen
the server replay (I turned down the number of cars shown to improve
framerate so my local replay doesn't tell the whole story on this one) yet
so it's hard for me to step forward. It's also hard for Mitch and Dave to
change the format on a permanent basis without input or hearing at least
some different opinions on the Darlington no-yellows race.

If I may turn things around for a moment, I was surprised to see the
majority on the no-yellows vote for Darlington go against me. When that was
said and done though, I got on with it and tried to turn the situation to
the best of my advantage. I did enjoy it less than some of the low yellow
count races we've had, but I was competitive with those on the same strategy
and I got a good placing out of it. That wouldn't have happened if I'd
dropped my head and gone in thinking I'd be wrecked and forced out of
contention. As it turns out I was forced out of contention by Huggings,
Ginger and others because they managed to go a lot quicker and still get 45
laps out of their tyres, but that doesn't alter my outlook. I'm in it to win
it and I enjoy stepping up to the challenges the races pose, whatever they
may be (yes: even if that means keeping focus and drive when dawdling around
behind the pacecar).

Yet you do seem to enter these races with two motives which cannot always
co-exist: to do well in the race and to have fun. You can choose to battle
for position extensively early in the race and have fun, but it will slow
you down and deminish your chances of actually winning the race (especially
if you get into an accident). On the other hand, a couple of guys must
finish 1, 2 and 3, even in a messy/boring race. It's up to you how to juggle
those motives as you compete.

It's not hoping for the best. Being positive and confident and instilling
that in others does help.

SAS soldiers are incredibly fit, undergo constant and advanced training and
are exceptionally well equipped, but the real reason they are better than
regular troops is they have utter and unwavering belief in their abilities /
their commanders and their ability to sublimate anything and everything to
the job in hand. A squaddie might think "Oh man... a field excercise.
Setting and breaking up camp every day, eating bland personal rations, not
getting myself clean properly, the rain, the mud, the heat/the cold, the
insects....". An SAS trooper receives his instructions and then goes ahead
and does it. It's a mindset... and a mindset that can be promoted.

I am confident I can run in the race tonight and avoid the avoidable, I'm
confident most of the others can too if they've got their heads screwed on
rigth. I'm not entirely confident about that last bit, but I wasn't going to
let that show, if you understand what I mean.

...reasonably long experience of focussing on the negatives in RASCAR,
rather. <vwg>

I might have agreed with you before I started doing the reviews and really
paying attention to people's driving, but I cannot agree now. It's not a
matter of car control, but of self control. It's a matter of getting people
to avaluate their driving without feeling insulted. That can only be done by
pointing out the positive while mentioning the negative.

I thought I made it clear you merely tipped the scales for me to make a
public statement. I'm not pissed off. I'm a little annoyed, just like I was
when Eldred condemned the Bristol race to a yellow fest before it even
started.

You can say "I'd like to see yellows of in RASCAR races because..." as much
as you like. People will be yelling for us to start a seperate newsgroup
again long before I'll grow tired of debating the issue.

I do mind the "*I* will race as long as *I* am entertained"-comment. Having
a good race is a team effort, you are just as responsible for my racing
enjoyment as I am for yours. Having good drivers present in the race to pit
myself against, is part of my racing enjoyment.

Priority check, isle 4. <vbseg>

Jan.
=---

Larry

Regards

Regards

Eldred
--
"A voice from the crowd:  Right, everyone out of my garden.  I've had
enough of this!"

Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
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Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -7.8)

I'll agree there's not much to the driving part, but the rest is chess at
185mph and that aspect makes it interesting.

If, on the other hand, you can get people believing in their ability to the
extent there is no reason for them to expect there being a lot of yellows if
they just do what they do, there won't be a lot of yellows. Trust me, it
really does work.

Perhaps people fail to realise simracing is only partially "a gift". The
rest is an interest in the sport and a learned skill. It does require
analysis of what you're doing and it does take conscious effort to improve.
As with any "game" it does require one to "take it seriously" to ascend past
a certain level.

Yellows do seem to be on a haired trigger there. Don't really see why some
of 'm were thrown. On the other hand there were a couple of instances where
I could see the accident coming a mile away. I need to find out why those
involved didn't and arm everyone with that knowledge. If I can get through
in this manner it will improve the racing over time. Whether you want to be
part of that process or not is up to you.

What's up with the pacecar at this track, BTW? -Even if the leader had
nearly a lap to run in order to take the yellow it still didn't manage to
make it out to the backstretch in time to catch him. Is this something that
can be edited with the Sandbox editor?

Jan.
=---

<vwg>

Yes, but you do realise that's a viscious circle which needs to be broken?

That's simply pittyfull.

That's strange as T2 is by far the more dangerous turn at the start. Most of
the events I've been in got through both, but if it went wrong it was at T2.

You're right, it's not that hard. It's fairly easy in fact. Also I'd
hestitate to call drivers who routinely get involved in this kind of
incident better than you. Faster on their own, perhaps more confident, but
certainly not better.

Jan.
=---

Nice quote, but that has got to be the lamest excuse for T1 accidents I've
ever heard. When it's crunch time, you're dicing for position, both drivers
are maxed out and it gets away or goes pearshaped, then that may be
excusable. Missing one's braking or running out of room in T1 simply isn't.

Being fast means f*** all if you can't make it through the 1st turn in one
piece.

Jan.
=---

Looks to me like you guys are arguing the same point from a different
angle. I've always said people need to practice more in order to gain
some self-confidence and to *know* how the car is going to react in
different situations. Given that RASCAR uses the <fast> setups
(widely recognized as being almost completely unsuitable for the
majority of drivers out there), this is the most important aspect of
racing.  Not having to come up with your own setup relieves you of a
LOT of the hassle of preparing for a race because all you have to do
is get used to the one everyone else will be using.

If you don't know that the setup pushes on exit after 5, 10, 0r 15
laps, then you haven't practiced enough.  If you don't know what the
car is going to do at the end of a fuel run, you haven't practised
enough. If you don't know what the car is going to do if you blow a
turn entry and drift way high, you haven't practised enough.  

If, by the time the race session starts, you haven't decided whether
or not you can hold it together for the whole race, you should quit
the race, and start practicing for the next event.

Yellows can be an important part of race strategy, and most of the
online leagues that exist today run with them turned on.  There's
absolutely no reason to expect an online race to go caution-free, but
at the same time, you shouldn't have to worry about whether or not
50% of the laps will be run under the yellow flag.

Turning cautions off doesn't teach anyone anything. You have to be
willing to call people out for doing stupid shit, and the people you
call out should be willing to admit when they screwed up, and then be
able to learn from it.