rec.autos.simulators

by **John Simmon** » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 23:57:53

> >It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn
> >three.

> So are you just supposed to pull over to the right in the turns and let
> everyone go by??? Sorry, but I don't understand that at ALL...

> Eldred

What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around
the track. That's not racing (at least not in my book). Technically,
it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
RASCAR Roster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **lee.ward** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:25:44

Can someone explain to this ignorant Brit what a "plate" track is?

Lee

by **Don Burnett** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:34:03

Restrictor plates used, 2 tracks in Nascar where they use these - Daytona
and Talladega - reduces the horsepower of the engines drastically by cutting
the air intake - basically a Nascar mandated plate goes over the air intake
that has smaller holes in it.
This keeps the speeds down at the 2 above large tracks, they did this a few
years ago to supposedly make these tracks safer, although that can be
debatable as the downside is they keep all the cars grouped together, no one
can really pull away as long as your in the draft - makes for much more
closer racing and at those speeds when something does happen many cars
usually get caught up - hence the term " The Big One" when they are
referring to the plate tracks. You'll often times hear Nascar drivers
complain about running the plate tracks for this very reason.

Don Burnette

by **Tony Rickar** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:37:52

A restrictor plate is fitted restricting the air-flow into the engine,
thus reducing horsepower. This is to reduce speeds at the very high
speed tracks for safety (and arguably to force closer racing for the
fans)

It tends to bunch up the cars as drafting becomes of paramount
importance and the cars can be run flat out so the disparity of handling
is less apparent. This can have a knock on effect that crashes tend to
be big as the bunch get together ("the big one").

Tony
(Another Brit trying to get to grips with Nascar!)

by **lee.ward** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:44:15

Thanks to both of you, Tony & Don. Now I understand the problem.

Lee

by **jason moy** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 04:21:02

Uh.

In a real Daytona race, the leader usually holds his line. If you
look at the spring race this year, you'll see that for most of the
race, whomever was leading kept their car in the ideal line the entire
way around the track unless there was a slight gap opened up.

Actually, at the end of the Tona races won by Waltrip/Earnhardt last
year, the leader did what I would consider blocking...swerving back
and forth between the low and high line trying to keep people behind
him.

Admittedly I've done this at the end of a race to break the draft when
people were trying to get a run on me...

Anyway, what causes accidents on the plate tracks isn't people staying
in the low lane, it's people who don't know how to control their
closure rate. If you know how to work the draft, you can slingshot on
the outside of someone coming out of 2 and 4 really easily.

Jason

>Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race, and
>you'll see what we are talking about.

>> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull over
>> to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by you?

>> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and
>> forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if
>> someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it high,
>> unless it is a pack of cars lapping.

>> > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It
>> > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps,
>with
>> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit.

>> > -Larry

>> > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS
>> they
>> > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of
>> my
>> > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked

by **Sean Higgin** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 04:35:09

I think the swerving back between lanes was more to give one guy the draft,
then the other guy, as to not let one guy get a big run on him.

--

Sean Higgins

PRI-- http://www.performance-racing.net/

My Ferrari pics
http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/

> Uh.

> In a real Daytona race, the leader usually holds his line. If you
> look at the spring race this year, you'll see that for most of the
> race, whomever was leading kept their car in the ideal line the entire
> way around the track unless there was a slight gap opened up.

> Actually, at the end of the Tona races won by Waltrip/Earnhardt last
> year, the leader did what I would consider blocking...swerving back
> and forth between the low and high line trying to keep people behind
> him.

> Admittedly I've done this at the end of a race to break the draft when
> people were trying to get a run on me...

> Anyway, what causes accidents on the plate tracks isn't people staying
> in the low lane, it's people who don't know how to control their
> closure rate. If you know how to work the draft, you can slingshot on
> the outside of someone coming out of 2 and 4 really easily.

> Jason

> >Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race,
and
> >you'll see what we are talking about.

> >> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull
over
> >> to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by
you?

> >> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back
and
> >> forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if
> >> someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it
high,
> >> unless it is a pack of cars lapping.

> >> > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so.
It
> >> > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps,
> >with
> >> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit.

> >> > -Larry

> >> > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on
SS
> >> they
> >> > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out
of
> >> my
> >> > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked

by **jason moy** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 05:34:27

Yeah, that's actually what I meant. You've phrased it significantly
better. :)

I did that at the end of the first league race from the spring season.
There's something funny about the way you can tease people like that.
If you can get the cars behind you to race side by side, it's actually
beneficial to give the low line the draft in the turns and then pull
the high line behind you on the straight. Then when you get to the
turn you just dive down again. Basically just an exagerrated
qualifying line. Frustrating as hell for the cars behind you, but
that's their problem. :)

Jason

On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 19:35:09 GMT, "Sean Higgins"

>I think the swerving back between lanes was more to give one guy the draft,
>then the other guy, as to not let one guy get a big run on him.

>--

>Sean Higgins

>PRI-- http://www.performance-racing.net/

>My Ferrari pics
>http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/

>> Uh.

>> In a real Daytona race, the leader usually holds his line. If you
>> look at the spring race this year, you'll see that for most of the
>> race, whomever was leading kept their car in the ideal line the entire
>> way around the track unless there was a slight gap opened up.

>> Actually, at the end of the Tona races won by Waltrip/Earnhardt last
>> year, the leader did what I would consider blocking...swerving back
>> and forth between the low and high line trying to keep people behind
>> him.

>> Admittedly I've done this at the end of a race to break the draft when
>> people were trying to get a run on me...

>> Anyway, what causes accidents on the plate tracks isn't people staying
>> in the low lane, it's people who don't know how to control their
>> closure rate. If you know how to work the draft, you can slingshot on
>> the outside of someone coming out of 2 and 4 really easily.

>> Jason

>> >Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race,
>and
>> >you'll see what we are talking about.

>> >> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull
>over
>> >> to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by
>you?

>> >> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back
>and
>> >> forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if
>> >> someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it
>high,
>> >> unless it is a pack of cars lapping.

>> >> > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so.
>It
>> >> > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps,
>> >with
>> >> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit.

>> >> > -Larry

>> >> > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on
>SS
>> >> they
>> >> > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out
>of
>> >> my
>> >> > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked

by **Pete** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 05:36:17

After reading most of the posts on this topic, I'm going to have to rain
on the
parade a bit.
If you can't pass on the outside you need to do more work on your setup.
Obviously, this only applies to open setups.
It took a lot of work and thought process on how to get the car to be
really fast at Daytona and Talladega. And after much work with my team
mates we did discover a setup that would not only pass on the outside with
a drafting partner but it will also work without one. Although, this
requires
many laps and extremely smooth driving to accomplish.
I ran a race last Sunday in which many big hitters were running. After a
long race there was a breakway pack of 8 cars. I was running on the outside
by myself, the other 7 cars were on the inside. Everytime I got beside the
leader he or his team mate in 2nd would give me a nice tap into the wall to
slow me down. Didn't wreck fortunately.
I waited until the last lap to make my charge and was side by side with
the leader in the last corner when I was clipped on the extreme LR by the
leaders team mate(behind him on the inside). Before he did that I had big
run
coming off the corner and was carrying better speed than the leader was. I
went up into the wall and went from 2nd to 5th. If he hadn't clipped me I
may
have got first with no drafting partner. I had earlier in the week with 35
to 40
car fields won 3 out of 3 races. One of them was by several thousands of a
second on the outside.
So it can be done!

Pete

"> i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they

by **The Other Larr** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:19:49

That's my point.

In the situations I'm talking about, a car hugs the low line blocking a long
line of cars behind him. It's frustrating, and inevitably ends up causing a
wreck one way or another.

The whole idea of the line going high around him is nice, if it would work
out that way. Inevitably if you go high to initiate this, the car behind
you goes under you and you are screwed.

I guess I'm just a little old school on this deal. It was NEVER like this
on TEN or Hawaii.

-Larry

> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull over
> to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by you?

> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and
> forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if
> someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it high,
> unless it is a pack of cars lapping.

> > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It
> > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps,
with
> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit.

> > -Larry

> > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS
> they
> > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of
> my
> > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked

by **Jay Taylo** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:21:05

Actually for most of the VRW race at Daytona this season you saw 32 cars 2
wide 16 rows deep. Once you get the field stacked like that it's almost
impossible for either line to gain an adavantage. Being in the middle of it
is frustrating as hell, but that seems pretty realistic. If the field gets
spread out at all either lane can work if you get with the right people.

Jay Taylor

> > It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for
wreck-fests
> > due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them.

> > It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it
is
> > here either.

> The high line at SS in NR2002 is the faster line. Really, it is. If you
> ever race serious leagues, you'll see. Download the VRW replay of their
> races there, and you'll see. You'll see ;)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **The Other Larr** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:22:24

We agree to disagree then :)

-Larry

> Everyone his opinion but i really don't agree with this.
> I can see yer point...but taking a certain line and staying there is
> not what i see as blocking..
> If i'm hugging the inside you're free to go around...i won't swirve to
> keep you from trying..i'm just not giving away the inside...holding my
> line...not blocking..
> And i think you don't see it on real daytona cause it's not quite
> modelled right in 2002 as you say.
> I bet if in real life the inside line gave the same advantage as it
> does in NR2002 everyone would be driving there too...and it'd get
> really boring...as it does in 2002 at times...gggg

> On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:41:06 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)"

> >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for
wreck-fests
> >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them.

> >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it
is
> >here either.

> >Of course, the last 2 laps are so are fair game, and protecting the low
line
> >by blocking is to be expected.

> >NR2002 does not model the outside groove exactly like real racing. It
> >simply doesn't give that 'run' like you see on TV. This makes the
> >entire-race, low-line blocking even worse.

> >The only people who do this are the people who don't understand what
racing
> >is all about.

> >-Larry

by **The Other Larr** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:27:21

John, you are absolutely correct.

I've seen guys, from the drop of the green flag, get on the yellow line and
just sit there for 50 laps, pissing off everyone behind him.

That is the situation I am talking about, and it is, unfortunatey, in-vogue
on WON right now and is responsible for a great number of the incidents that
occur.

That and what I will now refer to as the "Jarrett" Manuever. Anyone who saw
tonights race knows what I mean.

I'm far more disappointed that he didn't outright own up to it than I am he
did it in the first place.

Although Mike Skinner is probably the worse driver when it comes to that
nonsense.

-Larry

Simmons

> > >It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn
> > >three.

> > So are you just supposed to pull over to the right in the turns and let
> > everyone go by??? Sorry, but I don't understand that at ALL...

> > Eldred

> What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around
> the track. That's not racing (at least not in my book). Technically,
> it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form.

> --
> =========================================================
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> RASCAR Roster
> http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

by **The Other Larr** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:30:33

No, no NO! You misunderstand :)

What we are talking about is when a car, typically from the time the green
is flown, goes to the yellow line and just sits there, for 40, 50 or
whatever laps, and even on the backstraight never uses a normal racing line.

-Larry

Other

> >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for
wreck-fests
> >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them.

> >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it
is
> >here either.

> Are you saying drivers don't try to stay on the low line in the turns in
real
> life? It sure looks that way to ME...

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI
> 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS,
> VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact
Officer
> Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **The Other Larr** » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:30:33

Yes, of course you are going to keep the low line in the corners if you have
it. I wouldn't expect anything else :)

If anyone thought I was proposing you ease up off the line in the corners, I
apologize for the confusion.

-Larry

> Other

> > >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for
> wreck-fests
> > >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them.

> > >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it
> is
> > >here either.

> > Are you saying drivers don't try to stay on the low line in the turns in
> real
> > life? It sure looks that way to ME...

> > Eldred

> Eldred, I believe they are talking more about the straights, - certainly
if
> you have the low line in a turn, your going to keep it as it is the
> preferred line.
> While the plate tracks can offer some very good close racing, it is this
> reason I don't particular care that much for them. Cars get bunched up,
and
> then folks try and stay in the low line going down the straights rather
than
> moving to the outside. Eventually somone is going to dive on the inside of
> the line down the straight, and someone will follow, creating an almost
> helpless situation going into the turn - especially if the guy on the
> outside, who is on the inside line, doesn't move up and give the line.
> Myself, I prefer to get settled in at the plate tracks and try and stay
> where I am at for a while. If most folks would do this, it can be a very
> exciting race indeed - unfortunately most folks won't be that patient, and
> usually what results is " the big one".

> Don Burnette

rec.autos.simulators

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS