rec.autos.simulators

It looks great, but I have mixed feelings about it so far.  I
think I am greatly handicapped in my eval of it because of my
familiarity - and love - for GP2.  I really wish I got a look at
it without GP2 as reference.  Alas, that is not possible.

My main problem right now is translating setups in my head.  In
GP2,  have a brilliant SPA setup.  Translating settings like ride
hieight and wing settings is a complete disaster.  In GP2, I run
a ride height of about 31.5mm front and 54.5 rear.  In F1RS, I
need *at least* +10mm front and rear to keep the plank off the
ground.  Same wing settings (8 rear, 12 front), 1/2 load of fuel.
Also, the car is pushier than all hell in the 3rd gear right
hander onto the back straight (leading into the bustop chicane).
I will admit I am  having huge trouble understanding F1RS
suspension stiffness model... may be some of my problem... but
10mm?  One of these 2 sims is just plain modeling ride height
*incorrectly*, in my humble opinion.

The gear ratios seem wildly different as well.  Translating
spring and damper rates is a whole nother ballgame altogether,
with significantly different terminology and presentation.

I'm not saying one is worse than the other.  I am obviously
clouded by endless GP2 experience.  Any suggestions from other
GP2 *and* F1RS users on how to translate setups?

Commentary:
The biggest difference I have "felt" so far between the two is
the "feel" of the car.  In GP2, it seems to me I can "feel" the
car a lot more.  You can visually "feel" it leaning or
overloading a corner of the car, where in F1RS I can't feel it.
The "lean" issue is my biggest problem at this point, not being
able to feel it in F1RS is a setup/driving nightmare, so far.

By the time I can mentally process a push is occurring, it's too
late.  This is most likely due to my familiarity with GP2 and
lack of experience with F1RS.  I will spend more time with F1RS
before I make a decision.  Any other GP2 vets notice this?

Also, in F1RS you seem to be way down closer to the road in the
***pit view.  It makes it quite difficult (for me) to interpret
the corners, and my approach into them.  This is probably just a
difference in the games, and if I had played F1RS first, I'd
think GP2's view is goofy... hard to know.

Are the tracks physically different?  Spa seems quite different,
from an apex and some corner speeds, in F1RS than GP2.

Comments? (let's not get a meaningless (duplicate) flame war
going... i"m not saying one is better than the other (yet)).

Hammer
remove x fer email reply

See you Rejean

I found that the acceleration/decceleration, is more 'pronounced' in f1 rs,
but strangely enough I didn't feel the speed at the straights in the
beginning. ->Gp2 feels more real regarding speed.
At spa, I didn't feel any speed at all; but in Monaco, I almost got seasick
of the acceleration.
This has improved thou, since i installed the "inside helmet sounds" which
makes F1 more noisy and nice.

I think that F1 rs should be driven with a more powerful steering than Gp2,
which I could drive making only .25 turns on the wheel in each direction.
When I drive F1 I turn the wheel to almost full deviation in the beginning
of the turn.

F1 is anyway quite easy to adapt to, I think. The training mode with the
waiting gostcar, and the time attack, makes it easy to be fast. It is easier
to recover from a spin(skid or what is it called), and actually no driving
aids is neccesary, if one has at little feeling.
The telemetry is very clumsy, compared 2 GP2, so I decided to skip that
part, and decided 2 go for the setups which can be found on the net. Since
the driving model is easier to handle, it is easier to adapt to another
driving style, and using someone elses setups is quite OK. Doing already low
1.39. in australia... (2,5sec's enough for pole). 2 weeks.
The really fine part is that one isn't lost on contact with another car. I
drive much more races now, and doesn't get half as frustrated.

I really like F1 beeing a little more forgiving.
I think you'll find yourself home quite soon.

Carl Ribbegaardh

Carl R

Carl R

It does look great, one of its plus points, and after lots of practice
it will feel great too.

Forget translating GP2 set-ups over to F1RS set-ups, IMHO that does not
work. The physics model of F1RS is different to GP2, and F1RS is based
on a newer season, along with the performance gains and other
technological advancements that a mere couple of years in F1 bring.
So your set-ups in GP2 will *not* work (as well) in F1RS no matter what
you try, and vice versa?

My appraoch after trying the same thing, and failing miserably, was to
start from *scratch* with F1RS, but apply the same *principles* that
you learnt in GP2. They are different sims, but the theory and
principles behind setting up an F1 car still apply. (Or an even easier
way to half decent set-ups in F1RS, is to download some decent set-ups
from the net, as a starting point, and improve these good set-ups to
your own liking).

Everything is slightly different, as I said, IMHO you are better off
forgeting every thing you learnt in GP2 (as far as set-up go) and
starting again from scratch. You could also try one of the numerous
set-up guides to F1RS (I seem to remember there was a good one at the
"unnofficial F1RS" website, try....

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Or try the "Official" site at....

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Same as learning GP2, practice, practice, oh? and more practice.
It feels totally alien to GP2 at first I know, but if you persevere it
*WILL* get better, and you will start to feel how the car is behaving
after a while, then it gets *really* rewarding?

The default set-ups in F1Rs have way too much understeer, lose some
front wing, lower the ride height, increase front spring and decrease
rear spring, and move the brake bias forward a bit, and you have a
(very basic) improved set-up straight away? In GP and chamionship modes
only, you can check out the telemetry if you are into that too (click
the button that looks like a minature graph at the bottom of the screen
in the garage screen)

I prefer GP2***pit view, you can see more of the road, IMHO?

Yes they are, some have elevation changes, some are pretty flat,
corners are slightly different on the same tracks at GP2 & F1RS (bear
in mind corners do change sometimes from season to season?) You
mentioned Spa, in GP2 (my fastest time is 1:52)I can take Eau Rouge at
around 300kph but have to lift off the throttle for a split second, but
in F1RS (my fastest time is 1:50) I can take Eau Rouge at only 290kph,
but this is flat out (if I get it right?)

The tracks are slightly different, although the basic layouts are the
same, the cars are slightly different (based on different years?), the
physics models are slightly different, the set-ups are slightly
different. What does all this mean? Both sims are excellent at what
they were designed to do, eg:- simulate F1 racing.

Stick with them both, and you will appreciate them both. But they are
*different* sims, so don't try to apply everything from GP2 in the same
manner with F1RS. its hard at first, but you'll get great satisfaction
to be able to drive them both well after some serious practice.

8-)

PS:- if my times sound reasonable to you (Barcelono 1:22,Silverstone
1:24, suzuka 1:38, etc) I would be happy to send a couple of set-ups or
ghost laps to get you on your way, e-mail me.

Peter*    8-)
(NB: remove asterix to e-mail)

******SNIP*****

See this RAS message 112752 regarding set-up guides.

******SNIP******

For anyone that hasn't visited the Unofficial F1RS Site recently, a new
and improved version of Guy Cote and Rejean Bazinet's 'Magic Touch
Setup' has been posted.

A great program for those who are having problems coming up with an
ideal setup

******UNSNIP******

8-)

*Peter*    8-)
(NB: remove asterix to e-mail)