rec.autos.simulators

Hi Jim,

What inspired you and your team to create a sim based
on cars out of the '60s? Don't you think the "state of the art"
appeals more to the "vast" market of *** fanatics(usually kids) more
than something so far into the past? I'm sure from all the enjoyment ive
gotten from past Papy sims that it will be a step above as far as
realism, but I will be reluctant to spend too much time with outdated
cars. I think that kids nowadays are lured towards technology and can
relate with race cars of this decade. Any opinions? I cant believe I
havent seen any posts asking this question.  

-David Gary-

On Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:20:23 -0500, David Gary

The sixties Formula One cars were UNBELIEVABLE. What those guys were
willing to do to get those cars with insane horsepower to weight (and
horsepower to grip) ratios amazes me. Our games (with the possible
exceptions of Sony NASCAR) have never really appealed to the "kid"
market. I believe that our average user is older than I am.

Having driven some proof-of-concept version of Grand Prix Legends (I
don't know if this the "real" title, but it's the working title), I
can say that this game will astound the true racing sim fan. Around
the time development began, we couldn't get the rights to modern-day
F1, and judged that the new physics model being developed would be
most applicable to 60's F1. The designer had already been to an open
wheel school at Skip Barber, so convinced a group of us to go to
Skip's racing school in open wheel formula cars, and we walked away
convinced that this was the thing to do.

Yes, these cars are "outdated," but the driving experience will of
course be second to none (at the time of release), and I really
believe that this game will set the next "level" of driving sim. (The
mere fact that the cars are outdated is somewhat a good thing IMO;
this game is all about driving and car setup. The tires are small and
managing the grip is all-important. You have abundant brakes and
horsepower, but you have to constantly be "on top of" the car, lest
you experience the literal "flip side" of the new 3d physics. Steering
is done as much with your feet as with your hands...Man, This is
GREAT!)

I really think that this is a product that the demo will sell units.
(The demo is months and months and months away, as the game isn't
shipping for over a year, but when the demo comes out, download it and
give it maybe 5 hours to get accustomed to it. If you like the idea,
but don't like the 60's F1 cars, wait a few more months for another
product using that same basic game engine... Personally, I'm going to
get all the practice I can once GPL ships so that when the next
product ships, that I won't be "behind the curve" anymore than I
usually am...)

---Jim Sokoloff

  On Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:20:23 -0500, David Gary

  >What inspired you and your team to create a sim based
  >on cars out of the '60s?
  That's a fair question. Read on.

  > Don't you think the "state of the art"
  >appeals more to the "vast" market of *** fanatics(usually kids)
  more
  >than something so far into the past?
  The sixties Formula One cars were UNBELIEVABLE. What those guys were

  willing to do to get those cars with insane horsepower to weight
  (and
  horsepower to grip) ratios amazes me. Our games (with the possible
  exceptions of Sony NASCAR) have never really appealed to the "kid"
  market. I believe that our average user is older than I am.

  > I'm sure from all the enjoyment ive
  >gotten from past Papy sims that it will be a step above as far as
  >realism, but I will be reluctant to spend too much time with
  outdated
  >cars. I think that kids nowadays are lured towards technology and
  can
  >relate with race cars of this decade. Any opinions? I cant believe
  I
  >havent seen any posts asking this question.
  Having driven some proof-of-concept version of Grand Prix Legends (I

  don't know if this the "real" title, but it's the working title), I
  can say that this game will astound the true racing sim fan. Around
  the time development began, we couldn't get the rights to modern-day

  F1, and judged that the new physics model being developed would be
  most applicable to 60's F1. The designer had already been to an open

  wheel school at Skip Barber, so convinced a group of us to go to
  Skip's racing school in open wheel formula cars, and we walked away
  convinced that this was the thing to do.

  Yes, these cars are "outdated," but the driving experience will of
  course be second to none (at the time of release), and I really
  believe that this game will set the next "level" of driving sim.
  (The
  mere fact that the cars are outdated is somewhat a good thing IMO;
  this game is all about driving and car setup. The tires are small
  and
  managing the grip is all-important. You have abundant brakes and
  horsepower, but you have to constantly be "on top of" the car, lest
  you experience the literal "flip side" of the new 3d physics.
  Steering
  is done as much with your feet as with your hands...Man, This is
  GREAT!)

  I really think that this is a product that the demo will sell units.

  (The demo is months and months and months away, as the game isn't
  shipping for over a year, but when the demo comes out, download it
  and
  give it maybe 5 hours to get accustomed to it. If you like the idea,

  but don't like the 60's F1 cars, wait a few more months for another
  product using that same basic game engine... Personally, I'm going
  to
  get all the practice I can once GPL ships so that when the next
  product ships, that I won't be "behind the curve" anymore than I
  usually am...)

  ---Jim Sokoloff

 Hi,
    As a forty something sort of person, who loves racing sims, I am
extremely e***d about this project. Keep Us Posted.

Thanks,
George

P.S. Try to remember 3DFX support :>}

Jim,

Herwig
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## Life is a heuristic guided depth-first search without backtracking

Have you ever SEEN an F1 race around this era? I've seen some on TV, and the
cars are great! They are FAST, fishtailing thru the corners, catching air over
humps, with no wings for downforce anywhere! These are true racing machines,
from a time when racing drivers really risked everything. I'm psyc'd about
papy doing an historical sim like this. It's a niche that few have tried, and
I look forward to a company dedicated to racing sims putting this one out.

BTW- the only bad thing I can thing about an historical racing sim like this
is, how do you make car sets for other years? :)

< Lot's of great stuff snipped...>

Sounds great! I can't wait!

But why the hell won't you give us a release date! (Just kidding ;-)  )

Keith

Hi Jim,

Sorry for the thread drift, but do you guys have any plans to do a
motorcycle sim?

Joe

snip snip

 Jim.. I think the legends idea is great...it would be even
greater if someday...(I understand it takes a "lemon" of a
long time to bring a game to market.) We would see a
legends of NASCAR version... I would love to fly around
dega in a Winged Dodge Daytona!  Or how about a Matador???  ;)

David
--
::::::::#########::::::::::David Burton  aka Vetteracer          
:########################::http://www.rust.net/~daland                                      
########################:::"You have to first finish,          
:::::::#########:::::::::::before finishing first"
<< MOTOR CITY FAST DRAFT RACING - Teamate: Tim Daley <<<<

On Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:20:23 -0500, David Gary

From my point of view, a sim of an historical period of racing isn't
very interesting. Most of my interest in simming is in getting a real
feel for the tracks that I'll watch on TV that year actually being
raced. From my point of view, I need an update every two  years or so,
because the tracks change and new ones are added, old ones deleted,
and I don't even much care to race those old tracks anymore. F1's
Hungaroring, NASCAR's N.  Wilkesboro, Indy's Indianapolis- who needs
'em now! ;> I miss all three of them, but I have no interest in
simming on them now.

I think that one of the great advantages motor sports have over all
other sports is that they can be simulated on a computer such that
someone at home can actually experience a little (at least visually
and in terms of braking/steering) of what the driver does. SHow me a
basketball, baseball, football, hockey, golf or even bowling sim that
can actually do that. They all give you something else, but racing on
a computer can look awfully much like exactly what you see on
television from an onboard camera-> Psygnosis' F1 takes the award for
that presently, I think. It's AI sucks, however.

This is not the case with the legends sim, but I would love to see this.
I have been hoping for a vintage racing sim for sometime, preferably
sports car but formula one will work.  

Nothing beats the sound of a potent chevy engine going down a straight
at 6000+ revs.  

That's just my two cents worth.  I am happy to see that they are going
back to the time when drivers actually drove cars than the computers.

<snip>
I agree, I think this is a great idea for a sim. You only have to
follow all the dewey-eyed reminiscing that goes on in r.a.s.F1 to see
the potential response to a game like this. Its also a big chance for
Papyrus to get much wider recognition in the sim community - there are
a hell of a lot of people (me included) that haven't played ICR or
Nascar but who would be interested in a sim like this. I would guess
that such a project will be a real challenge (in terms of modelling
the physics and the tracks). As you say, you have to really get to
grips with the ways the cars are so "nervous" - so much movement to
try and accurately capture. With all the downforce in modern racing
cars never get airborne, but I guess they will in this sim!
On the subject of modelling the tracks, has anything been finalised as
to which tracks will be included? I've seen Monza and Zandvoort
mentioned, but what about others? Surely not the full length
Nurburgring? (Please, please, please!...)

Alan Head

Screamer 2 homepages:
http://www.feature.demon.co.uk/games.htm
-----------------------------------------

Thanks again!  "8>}

-David Gary-

NO NO NO what Next product!! Talk about leading us on , man this is
gonna kill me trying to think of what would use the physics model of a
60's F1 car
        I could only hope for Can-Am cars but since you reffered the game might
be better for the kid who likes technology it must be Rally or GTS-1
cars or WSC. Im sure modern F1 and CART cars are out of the equation
unfortunatly.
        Im so glad you guys are making the car models so you have to "drive"
them. Its like the old slot car sets before the magnets, you couldnt
just slam the accel the whole way ariund the track you actually had to
drive em.
        Jim can you at least say if the Next product will be open wheel or not?

Hi Jim

I want this sim bad.

Only kidding I can wait until 98 :-)  After all I haven't got to the
pinnacle in NCR2 or ICR2 yet.

Here's hoping it will include the 180 (yes 180) turn Old Nurburgring.  I
would buy the sim if it only included that track.

Yes it does predate me by five years, but hell what a lot of fun it will be
driving a car that slides and has an excess of power.
--
Glenn Beaumaris

-----------------
"I Believe in God-After All Helen Hunt exists"

HELEN HUNT:
COOL "The day I got to hand over my tank top to the stunt woman on
Twister."
UNCOOL "Any TV series that has a Very Special Episode."
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