rec.autos.simulators

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

Dave Henri

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Dave Henri » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:55:19

   I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet.  I can post a reply via
email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post a follow
-up to a thread.  So my apologies for starting another thread.  I'll
probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where the read-me
is.

    John was all in a tizzy about Foriegn cars joining Nascar.  He felt it
was the last American sport left.
     That never bothered me, I welcome world-wide competiton.  Heck we sent
a one-nutted half dead biker over to some French bicycle race and look what
a major job of Whup-Ass he laid on them.
     We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew
Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec
AFTER the first race).  Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on the
big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona and the
ALMS GTS series.
      My feeling is, let them come, they might even kick the Yankee butt.  
But they will contribute to better racing and I'm all for that..be it
Yellow, Red, Prancings Mules or French WinniethePoohjoes.      

        So IF the Japanese come, they'll probably do it like most other
incursions, they'll hire a bunch of Yanks and team them with the Asian
Engineers and form a winning combination.  You can bet if Toyota comes,
another brand or two will follow.  

        I enjoyed the reign of the Nissan GTP cars, those Japan-built cars
with Australian drivers.  I marvelled at the Toyota IMSA GTP twin turbos in
good ol American built tubs.  Al Unser Jr's big wins at Indy are not
deminished because he drove English chassis' with British/German
powerplants.
        Hell, I don't even hold it against the Aussies for keeping thier V8
series down under...wouldn't it be something to see the Yank Trans Am cars
***heads with the Ozzies?  We could put Paul Gentilozzi up against Dougle
MacDougle(love that name!)

      I guess since Alan Kulwicki won the Winston Cup title waaaay back 10
or 12 years ago, I thought the Southern element of Nascar had gotten over
their fear of outsiders.  Heck didn't a guy from Michigan win a race this
year?(For the benefit of the Euro/Asian readers, Michigan is further north
than parts of Canada...ok not MANY parts but some...)  :)
        Would the America's cup be getting any coverage at all if it was just
a club race between a few Brits still?  
      Competiton is good John.  
      Bring it on...it  will give me a new subject to scream about when I
get tired of ragging on the Ron Fellows Clones in the Sportscar
mods(hey...isn't he a Cannuck?)
  Once again, my apologies for a new thread...I'll figure this Xnews out
someday.
dave henrie

MadDAW

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by MadDAW » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:28:53

While I can see your points, and believe they have their merits and as much
as it pains me to say it I gotta go with John on this (Never thought I'd see
the day). For the most part its a matter of personal preference more than
anything, but I don't want them there.  For me it doesn't have so much to do
with competition as it does with the heritage of the sport. I dislike the
idea of "jap cars" for the same reasons I hate the idea of taking a race
away from Darlington or Rockingham to give a 1.5 tri/quad oval track like
Texas a second race. To this day can remember the moment I started getting
out of Indy/CART racing. It was the year Teo Fabi <sp> took the pole at
Indy. Another big one was when Emo refused to drink milk after winning. It
was a slap in the face of sport. While it may not have meant much to him its
the fact that its not that bugs me. If they are just trophy hunters there
are plenty of other series that they can go race in. This was a very big
reason why I supported the IRL at first. It was billed to get back to the
way things were. The IRL was suppose to be so that the top sprint car and
midget guys could have another level to race at. Not a bunch of F1 hand me
downs or wannabes.  Of course we all know how that ended up. The money and
marketing took over and its right back to the way it was before the split.
Sorry to take it to an open wheel direction, but it was a good example of
why I feel the way I do. A good NASCAR based example is that Japanese guy
that ran for Travis Carter at Dover. It was all a gimmick. There was no
reason for that guy to be out there other than to make news and draw in the
foreign crowd. Now if he had been running well in Busch or even trucks it
would have been different, but he was only they so that Carter could get
some press and get some sponsor bucks. There will be even more of that
if/when Toyota comes in. While I'm no expert on racing in Japan I don't
think oval racing is to big over there so why do they want in? Money of
course. In John's original thread someone told him to think like a
capitalist. I know as well as anyone that racing has become more of a
business than a sport, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I see the
entry of the Japanese cars as just another step in the sell out that NA$CAR
has become.  So just like the cars we drive its a matter of personal taste,
but given the choice of Mustang Cobra or some hot rod "ricer" I know which
one I'd take.

Look at it this way Dave. The idea of Japanese cars in NASCAR is to us as
roof riders/kit kamers are to you. And we all know how you feel about that.
lol

MadDAWG

Dave Henri

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Dave Henri » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:30:42



    You mean those DIRTY/STINKIN/NOGOOD Nips are roof riders?  I'm changing
sides!!!!   (((kidding...jussst kidding folks...I didn't mean the part
about stinkin...really.....)))
:)
dave henrie

Haqsa

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Haqsa » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:29:23

Why do you think the American manufacturers are in it?  The saying "Win on
Sunday sell on Monday" goes back a looong ways in NASCAR.


over there so why do they want in?

Damien Smit

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Damien Smit » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:39:15

Do those tanks resemble anything you can buy on Monday?  I certainly hope
not.

Marc Goldstei

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Marc Goldstei » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:00:27

Great post Dave, I'm with you on this one. No one cares about the American
Vipers and Vettes wining all over, but try to compete with them on their
home turf, and watch out. Of course, I'm a Canadian :)


Doug Elliso

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Doug Elliso » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:46:31


Agreed - American manufacturers have shown us how it's done in some fields.
Although to be fair - the single seater market is sewn up as a British
concern :P

If Nascar fans dont want any 'outsiders' coming into their sport then my
opinions of Nascar fans in general has been right all along - and it's not a
nice opinion either. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination to
consider it Racism.

Doug

John Pancoas

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by John Pancoas » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:24:24




> >    I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet.  I can post a reply via
> > email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post a
> follow
> > -up to a thread.  So my apologies for starting another thread.  I'll
> > probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where the
> read-me
> > is.

> >      We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew
> > Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec
> > AFTER the first race).  Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on
the
> > big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona and
the
> > ALMS GTS series.

> >       Competiton is good John.

> Agreed - American manufacturers have shown us how it's done in some
fields.
> Although to be fair - the single seater market is sewn up as a British
> concern :P

> If Nascar fans dont want any 'outsiders' coming into their sport then my
> opinions of Nascar fans in general has been right all along - and it's not
a
> nice opinion either. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination to
> consider it Racism.

> Doug

  Hey Doug, let's jump to conclusions a bit, shall we ?  Interesting, you
hammer on John about racism, but seem to have no qualms about holding a
stereotypical, bigoted attitude about Nascar fans you imply.

  And for the record Dave, Kulwicki was hardly breaking ground by being an
"outsider" in Nascar.  You're spoken of fear of outsiders by the Southern
element is off-base.

  Whether John's comments were "smart" or not, uninformed, just as biased,
retorts aren't any better imo.

John

- Show quoted text -

Doug Elliso

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Doug Elliso » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:45:21




>  Interesting, you
> hammer on John about racism, but seem to have no qualms about holding a
> stereotypical, bigoted attitude about Nascar fans you imply.

You dont know what my attitude of Nascar fans is.   I imply it's not good -
but you dont know why or what it is

Perhaps it's only the most vocal who 'do the damage' w.r.t. the image of
your average Nascar fan - but people like John Simmons do them NO favours
and anyone prepared to side with him on such an issue is certainly someone
who's company I'd avoid - I'm not going to be out and out racist about
things - I am not a racist person - but like it or loath it there IS a
stereotype surrounding Nascar fans - and people like John S. do a very good
job of upholding it.

Doug

John Pancoas

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by John Pancoas » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:52:53






> >  Interesting, you
> > hammer on John about racism, but seem to have no qualms about holding a
> > stereotypical, bigoted attitude about Nascar fans you imply.

> You dont know what my attitude of Nascar fans is.   I imply it's not
good -
> but you dont know why or what it is

> Perhaps it's only the most vocal who 'do the damage' w.r.t. the image of
> your average Nascar fan - but people like John Simmons do them NO favours
> and anyone prepared to side with him on such an issue is certainly someone
> who's company I'd avoid - I'm not going to be out and out racist about
> things - I am not a racist person - but like it or loath it there IS a
> stereotype surrounding Nascar fans - and people like John S. do a very
good
> job of upholding it.

> Doug

  Lol, yeah, whatever.  As I said, guess it's ok for you to have uninformed,
preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a group.

John

p.s.  F1, etc. fans have a stereotype too.  Amazing; stereotypes aren't
limited to Nascar fans I guess.

- Show quoted text -

Doug Elliso

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Doug Elliso » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:40:57

My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of Nascar
fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com - their
attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and
appearence on TV.

To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist.

Doug

John Pancoas

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by John Pancoas » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:54:16


  Whatever Doug; you're just trying to justify now, and doing poorly at it.
If I told you that my opinion of Martians is deduced from the things you
list above, what would you call me ?

John

John Pancoas

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by John Pancoas » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:56:06




> > >   Lol, yeah, whatever.  As I said, guess it's ok for you to have
> > uninformed,
> > > preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a
group.

> > My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of
Nascar
> > fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com - their
> > attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and
> > appearence on TV.

> > To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist.

> > Doug

>   Whatever Doug; you're just trying to justify now, and doing poorly at
it.
> If I told you that my opinion of Martians is deduced from the things you
> list above, what would you call me ?

> John

  Just to be clear, insert any group/race desired in place of Martians.

John

- Show quoted text -

Doug Elliso

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Doug Elliso » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:00:49


Better not tell them that most of their CART (Reynard / Lola and the Ford
engine made by Cosworth in the lovely Milton Keynes) and IRL chassis (
Gforce but not Dallara - who have a UK base ) are made in the UK then

God knows what would happen if you told them that some of the IRL cars ran
with Nissan engines. They'd probably die of shame - OR - is it just a Nascar
thing?

Doug

Doug Elliso

John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

by Doug Elliso » Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:01:41






> > > >   Lol, yeah, whatever.  As I said, guess it's ok for you to have
> > > uninformed,
> > > > preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a
> group.

> > > My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of
> Nascar
> > > fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com -
their
> > > attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and
> > > appearence on TV.

> > > To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist.

> > > Doug

> >   Whatever Doug; you're just trying to justify now, and doing poorly at

Indeed

Whatever.

Doug


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