rec.autos.simulators

by **Adria** » Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:00:00

What are considered good times in viper racing for each track?
I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas.

I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on full
to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch.

Also, what are the record times for each track?

thanks!

by **Adria** » Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I changed my setup from moderate understeer (this was the 1st time I played
the game in a while and i didn't wanna get frustrated from constantly
spinning out) to a near neutral setup and I got down to 1:47.52. I think if
I set it to absolute neutral, I should be able to get below 1:47. :)

P.S. How does viper racing compare to GPL in difficulty?
I know GPl is tougher, but how much? (by comparison, like nfs4 is impossible
to spin out and is fairly unrealistic vs. viper racing, or some comparison
like that)

thanks!

by **Adria** » Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:00:00

darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!!
I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode.
Another 5 seconds to shave off...
Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing?
I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but
with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I was
getting slower times in the end.
thanks!

by **Adria** » Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:00:00

well i'm down to 1:45.96
I find that if I'm coming up to anyone of the sharper turns and I get on the
brakes, then when I'm at the top end of the 3rd gear range, i put the car in
3rd gear, if i'm in the turn, this results in the back end going out and
thus a slower turn. SO, I'm curious as to what everyone else does, do you do
the same thing i'm doing? or do you put it into 4th first, and then when
you're slowed down more put it into 3rd? OR do you do all your braking
before you start to turn and just go from 5th or 6th directly to 3rd?

thanks!

> darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!!
> I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode.
> Another 5 seconds to shave off...
> Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing?
> I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but
> with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I was
> getting slower times in the end.
> thanks!

> > Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you
> refering
> > to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very SLOW,
> > especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was 1:42:52
> and
> > with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a way
> to go
> > to approach good times. Paul

by **John Bodi** » Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I won't post anybody else's records here, but these are the times I've
submitted for the CompuServe Viper Racing Club. We differentiate between
quick race (Q/S) and career mode, and we also track what level in career (to
enable us to compare basic upgrade levels), and we also allow hotlap
submissions with the GTSR "hack." FYI, I only use ABS on the lowest
level -- the auto-clutch and manual shift option seems to work very well;
I've never tried using a clutch, as the braking is the most critical part of
some turns, and strategic lockup is needed at times, which is defeated by
using full ABS support. I'm not the fastest person in the club, but I'm up
in the top 2-5 usually:

Viper Racing Club Hot Laps Chart 9-05-99

Bemidji

John Bodin 0:31.50 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 0:33.13 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 0:37.08 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Bemidji Reversed

John Bodin 0:32.94 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 0:35.98 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Castlegreen

John Bodin 1:14.43 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:16.97 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:28.86 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Castlegreen Reversed

John Bodin 1:24.19 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:29.68 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Dayton

John Bodin 0:53.63 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 0:55.12 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 0:58.54 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

Dayton Reversed

John Bodin 0:54.06 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 0:56.14 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Silverdale

John Bodin 0:53.93 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 0:56.75 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Silverdale Reversed

John Bodin 0:59.85 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:03.80 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Ridge Valley

John Bodin 1:22.30 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:23.96 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:27.96 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

Ridge Valley Reversed

John Bodin 1:41.64 Q/S ABS, Auto-Clutch

Sunset Mesa

John Bodin 1:57.45 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 2:24.32 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Sunset Mesa Reversed

John Bodin 2:03.31 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 2:26.73 Q/S Auto-Clutch

Dundas

John Bodin 1:28.86 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:40.91 Career/Club ABS, Auto-Clutch

Dundas Reversed

John Bodin 1:34.97 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

Rock Island

John Bodin 1:27.58 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
John Bodin 1:28.92 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

>What are considered good times in viper racing for each track?
>I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas.

>I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on
full
>to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch.

>Also, what are the record times for each track?

>thanks!

by **pqt2** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you refering
to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very SLOW,
especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was 1:42:52 and
with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a way to go
to approach good times. Paul

> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track?
> I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas.

> I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on full
> to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch.

> Also, what are the record times for each track?

> thanks!

by **Adria** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

down to 1:44.22 :)
I found that braking before the turn gives me best results..

> I just found a we page that listed records, race results, setups and all
> that good stuff...
> Your time of 1:42 at dundas is very good, the record is 1:39
> My time of 1:47 isn't great, but i saw people with worse times...
> the web page is: http://netrex.sim-racing.net/Viper/ if anybody wants to
> know

> > darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!!
> > I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode.
> > Another 5 seconds to shave off...
> > Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing?
> > I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but
> > with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I
was
> > getting slower times in the end.
> > thanks!

by **pqt2** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

As I implied earlier I'm no expert at Viper but when I was playing it
regularly I always tried to be at the right speed and in the right gear well
prior to the apex. Maybe I was too conservative, but if I didn't I tended to
get in trouble.
As Rrevved said in his earlier post GPL is harder to drive than Viper but
Viper is a hell of a lot harder to drive than any other sim I've tried. It
makes SCGT, even with all the patches, seem like an arcade game. I also believe
it is harder than ICR2 and equal too if not a little harder to drive than GP2.
Just my opinion.Paul

> well i'm down to 1:45.96
> I find that if I'm coming up to anyone of the sharper turns and I get on the
> brakes, then when I'm at the top end of the 3rd gear range, i put the car in
> 3rd gear, if i'm in the turn, this results in the back end going out and
> thus a slower turn. SO, I'm curious as to what everyone else does, do you do
> the same thing i'm doing? or do you put it into 4th first, and then when
> you're slowed down more put it into 3rd? OR do you do all your braking
> before you start to turn and just go from 5th or 6th directly to 3rd?

> thanks!

> > darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!!
> > I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode.
> > Another 5 seconds to shave off...
> > Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing?
> > I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but
> > with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I was
> > getting slower times in the end.
> > thanks!

> > > Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you
> > refering
> > > to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very SLOW,
> > > especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was 1:42:52
> > and
> > > with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a way
> > to go
> > > to approach good times. Paul

by **John Bodi** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Here's my take on the Viper vs. GPL issue:

GPL is the most accurate automobile simulation to date. Viper Racing is the
only thing that even comes close (and it's not all that far behind), and
then I'd rank Powerslide (yes, the arcade racer from Ratbag) as the
third-best physics engine (SCGT works well enough, but to me it either
doesn't model or doesn't convey vehicle dynamics as well as Viper Racing or
Powerslide).

As far as Viper Racing goes, some people say it's too easy to spin out from
a standing start, for example, and cite this as a sign of how unrealistic it
is. If you consider the type of vehicle they're modeling (front engine,
rear-drive, tail-happy sports/GT) and the amount of horsepower a Viper has
(300+ hp?), then you begin to understand that a real Viper just MIGHT be
that touchy. If you've ever driven a small truck (a Chevy S-10 or such)
with a V-6 engine or a torquey 4-cylinder, then you might have some idea of
how easy it can be to break the rear end loose on an average vehicle, and
the Viper is in the 300+hp range, so it's got to be fairly touchy/twitchy.
Keeping this in mind, Viper Racing just feels right to me.

Powerslide, on the other hand, does a great job of modeling generic vehicle
types (imaginary futuristic racers and a few nondescript doppelgangers of
more contemporary street and off-road vehicles). The physics model is
communcative, lively, predictable, and when you put all that together, it
just FEELS right. Powerslide feels alive and realistic to me -- so much so
that it's hard for me to classify it as an arcade racer in the same category
as things like NFS (or even the SCGT category, which is definitely a step
above the arcade racer genre, but definitely near the bottom rungs of the
simulation ladder).

I've argued in the past that Viper Racing and GPL are virtually equal in the
simulation department. GPL does the best job ever of modeling of a 1967
Grand Prix racer, while Viper Racing does the best job ever of modeling a
1990s *** front-engine, rear-drive sports car. I list Powerslide in this
same league because I think it does the best job ever of modeling a generic,
nondescript high-horsepower vehicle -- as I said, NFS and SCGT would do well
to emulate the lively, communicative modeling that Ratbag has achieved with
Powerslide.

FWIW, I do own the full version of SCGT, and I've played around with it
quite extensively, but I just haven't found it as satisfying as my own
personal favorites (GPL, Viper Racing, and Powerslide).

That's my $0.02 - and then some! <G>

-- JB

>I changed my setup from moderate understeer (this was the 1st time I played
>the game in a while and i didn't wanna get frustrated from constantly
>spinning out) to a near neutral setup and I got down to 1:47.52. I think if
>I set it to absolute neutral, I should be able to get below 1:47. :)

>P.S. How does viper racing compare to GPL in difficulty?
>I know GPl is tougher, but how much? (by comparison, like nfs4 is
impossible
>to spin out and is fairly unrealistic vs. viper racing, or some comparison
>like that)

>thanks!

>> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track?
>> I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas.

>> I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on
>full
>> to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch.

>> Also, what are the record times for each track?

>> thanks!

by **Adria** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I downloaded the demo of SCGT and I just plain didn't like it, maybe thats
because I only played for 5 minutes, but I just didn't like it, period!
Viper racing on the other hand is loads of fun!
I agree with your opinion.
I find that the viper GTS-R is almost impossible to get off the line without
spinning the tires like crazy, but you'd expect that with 720bhp on tap! The
regular GTS is quite easy to get off the line as long as you don't just
redline it in neutral and then put it in 1st.
A car should spin the tires easier when you turn the wheel hard to the left
or right, when you do that you set the cars balance off, so a tire lets
loose...

> Here's my take on the Viper vs. GPL issue:

> GPL is the most accurate automobile simulation to date. Viper Racing is
the
> only thing that even comes close (and it's not all that far behind), and
> then I'd rank Powerslide (yes, the arcade racer from Ratbag) as the
> third-best physics engine (SCGT works well enough, but to me it either
> doesn't model or doesn't convey vehicle dynamics as well as Viper Racing
or
> Powerslide).

> As far as Viper Racing goes, some people say it's too easy to spin out
from
> a standing start, for example, and cite this as a sign of how unrealistic
it
> is. If you consider the type of vehicle they're modeling (front engine,
> rear-drive, tail-happy sports/GT) and the amount of horsepower a Viper has
> (300+ hp?), then you begin to understand that a real Viper just MIGHT be
> that touchy. If you've ever driven a small truck (a Chevy S-10 or such)
> with a V-6 engine or a torquey 4-cylinder, then you might have some idea
of
> how easy it can be to break the rear end loose on an average vehicle, and
> the Viper is in the 300+hp range, so it's got to be fairly touchy/twitchy.
> Keeping this in mind, Viper Racing just feels right to me.

> Powerslide, on the other hand, does a great job of modeling generic
vehicle
> types (imaginary futuristic racers and a few nondescript doppelgangers of
> more contemporary street and off-road vehicles). The physics model is
> communcative, lively, predictable, and when you put all that together, it
> just FEELS right. Powerslide feels alive and realistic to me -- so much
so
> that it's hard for me to classify it as an arcade racer in the same
category
> as things like NFS (or even the SCGT category, which is definitely a step
> above the arcade racer genre, but definitely near the bottom rungs of the
> simulation ladder).

> I've argued in the past that Viper Racing and GPL are virtually equal in
the
> simulation department. GPL does the best job ever of modeling of a 1967
> Grand Prix racer, while Viper Racing does the best job ever of modeling a
> 1990s *** front-engine, rear-drive sports car. I list Powerslide in
this
> same league because I think it does the best job ever of modeling a
generic,
> nondescript high-horsepower vehicle -- as I said, NFS and SCGT would do
well
> to emulate the lively, communicative modeling that Ratbag has achieved
with
> Powerslide.

> FWIW, I do own the full version of SCGT, and I've played around with it
> quite extensively, but I just haven't found it as satisfying as my own
> personal favorites (GPL, Viper Racing, and Powerslide).

> That's my $0.02 - and then some! <G>

> -- JB

> >I changed my setup from moderate understeer (this was the 1st time I
played
> >the game in a while and i didn't wanna get frustrated from constantly
> >spinning out) to a near neutral setup and I got down to 1:47.52. I think
if
> >I set it to absolute neutral, I should be able to get below 1:47. :)

> >P.S. How does viper racing compare to GPL in difficulty?
> >I know GPl is tougher, but how much? (by comparison, like nfs4 is
> impossible
> >to spin out and is fairly unrealistic vs. viper racing, or some
comparison
> >like that)

> >thanks!

> >> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track?
> >> I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas.

> >> I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on
> >full
> >> to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch.

> >> Also, what are the record times for each track?

> >> thanks!

by **Adria** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Your right, slowing down before the apex allows me to get through the turn
much faster, I used to be slowing down to 70mph when I was stil braking in
the turn, but if I brake before the turn, I can get through in the mid-high
80's, sometimes even 90!
I found viper much harder to drive than a lot of other sims too, except CART
precision racing, i found that game extremely hard, but that's probably
because I didn't really know the tracks, so i was always too fast or too
slow, mostly too fast.

> As I implied earlier I'm no expert at Viper but when I was playing it
> regularly I always tried to be at the right speed and in the right gear
well
> prior to the apex. Maybe I was too conservative, but if I didn't I tended
to
> get in trouble.
> As Rrevved said in his earlier post GPL is harder to drive than Viper
but
> Viper is a hell of a lot harder to drive than any other sim I've tried.
It
> makes SCGT, even with all the patches, seem like an arcade game. I also
believe
> it is harder than ICR2 and equal too if not a little harder to drive than
GP2.
> Just my opinion.Paul

> > well i'm down to 1:45.96
> > I find that if I'm coming up to anyone of the sharper turns and I get on
the
> > brakes, then when I'm at the top end of the 3rd gear range, i put the
car in
> > 3rd gear, if i'm in the turn, this results in the back end going out and
> > thus a slower turn. SO, I'm curious as to what everyone else does, do
you do
> > the same thing i'm doing? or do you put it into 4th first, and then when
> > you're slowed down more put it into 3rd? OR do you do all your braking
> > before you start to turn and just go from 5th or 6th directly to 3rd?

> > thanks!

> > > darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!!
> > > I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode.
> > > Another 5 seconds to shave off...
> > > Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing?
> > > I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel,
but
> > > with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I
was
> > > getting slower times in the end.
> > > thanks!

> > > > Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you
> > > refering
> > > > to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very
SLOW,
> > > > especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was
1:42:52
> > > and
> > > > with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a
way
> > > to go
> > > > to approach good times. Paul

by **Adria** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

thanks!
I'm down to 1:43.96 :)
I'm using low ABS and manual clutch (pedal)
The microsoft FF wheel isn't very good for having the clutch as a button,
because when you turn the wheel hard in either direction, its extremely hard
to hit the clutch and shift at the same time, while with the pedal its easy
as pie, i just have to use a button for brakes (right now).

by **Adria** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

down to 1:43.42 now :)
And I can do laps at that speed for hours with the setup i'm using, I think
I may be able to get a little more speed if I set it up for oversteer, but
then I'd fall into the "hotlapper" category, except at normal speeds. I
think I can get a little more speed and still be under control if i play
with the gearing a little bit. any advice?

by **Adria** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

yay, i'm down to 1:42.95
I have a question for you guys though, in the esses, do you guys cut accross
at all? or just stay on the road?

by **John Bodi** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I enjoy hotlapping (or trying to, anyway) -- what I do is take a hotlap
setup, get to the point where I can be VERY consistent with it, and then try
to run different lines with it. Running different lines teaches you what
you need to know to avoid other cars, so it's good to know how to do that.
<G>

When I'm ready to race, I take my hotlap setup, and then "detune" it a bit
(more wing, softer shock settings, etc.). When "detuning" a hotlap setup, I
try to achieve stability and controllability over ultimate speed (or lap
speed). If I come up with a race setup that's a few seconds off my personal
best, but it's more controllable, I usually find that I can run rings around
the AI.

Hotlapping teaches you how to go fast, but the AI helps teach you how to
race. If you can't complete a race without ramming the AI cars (unless it's
a pileup situation that they've caused or such), then you're probably not
ready to race against humans. This is how I prepared for racing GPL online,
and while I've never been a spectacular performer, I've also never punted
anybody who was driving a good line, and I seldom get in anybody's way, or
caused problems when I'm slower.

I just wish Viper Racing was as online-friendly as GPL. :-(

-- JB

>down to 1:43.42 now :)
>And I can do laps at that speed for hours with the setup i'm using, I think
>I may be able to get a little more speed if I set it up for oversteer, but
>then I'd fall into the "hotlapper" category, except at normal speeds. I
>think I can get a little more speed and still be under control if i play
>with the gearing a little bit. any advice?

>> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track?
>> I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas.

>> I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on
>full
>> to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch.

>> Also, what are the record times for each track?

>> thanks!

rec.autos.simulators

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?